Survivor

[DrumNFeather]

That is a fair point. I think he was a very poor advocate for himself. Still, I stand by my statement that many of them are on their moral high horses of hypocrisy by then and it wouldn't make much difference to those. I think Russell could have gotten Jerri and Coach's vote last night had he done that but I'm not sure who else.

I think if Russell had "owned up" a little more, JT could've been swayed, he's shown he's not terribly bright.

Thinking about Colby, he survived a lot longer than he should've and really had the least to be bitter about, but he came out spitting fire. I guess he was just making his grand survivor exit.

[wuapinmon]

That is a fair point. I think he was a very poor advocate for himself. Still, I stand by my statement that many of them are on their moral high horses of hypocrisy by then and it wouldn't make much difference to those. I think Russell could have gotten Jerri and Coach's vote last night had he done that but I'm not sure who else.

People I hope to never see on Survivor again:

COURTNEY!

Danielle
James
Stephenie

[MarkGrace]

Several people are making the same comment, some I'm not going to highlight anyone here and just make a general observation.

I don't think the contestants go to the ponderosa and suddenly find a moral compass. And I think they would all recognize that some lying and deception is part of the game. But Russell clearly crosses a line that other contestants aren't willing to cross, and it costs him. It's not that he tells lies, it's that, in the words of Candice, he tells "dirty" lies. It may seem like a silly distinction, but clearly for the contestants it is an important distinction. We you start promising on your kids, wife, and dead grandmother, people just aren't going to take it well.

My wife kept saying last night that it's a game and the contestants need to take it less seriously. Yeah, it is a game, but it's also a game for a million dollars. Anyone is going to take that seriously.

[MarkGrace]

That is a fair point. I think he was a very poor advocate for himself.

No doubt. You sitting up there pining for votes, and when you can deliberately tell what the contestant wants you to say in order to get their vote, you say it!

If you are evil and cunning and the ultimate strategist willing to do anything to get to the top 3, why wouldn't you do anything it takes to win?

But again, Russell doesn't get how to play the game. For me that's the bottom line.

[DrumNFeather]

Several people are making the same comment, some I'm not going to highlight anyone here and just make a general observation.

I don't think the contestants go to the ponderosa and suddenly find a moral compass. And I think they would all recognize that some lying and deception is part of the game. But Russell clearly crosses a line that other contestants aren't willing to cross, and it costs him. It's not that he tells lies, it's that, in the words of Candice, he tells "dirty" lies. It may seem like a silly distinction, but clearly for the contestants it is an important distinction. We you start promising on your kids, wife, and dead grandmother, people just aren't going to take it well.

My wife kept saying last night that it's a game and the contestants need to take it less seriously. Yeah, it is a game, but it's also a game for a million dollars. Anyone is going to take that seriously.

It's just surprising though that given all that, he's able to control the game the way he is and that someone somewhere wasn't convinced or rather enough people weren't convinced to get rid of him. Maybe it was Parv's strategy to keep him around because she knew she could beat him in a vote.

[UtahDan]

I think if Russell had "owned up" a little more, JT could've been swayed, he's shown he's not terribly bright.

Thinking about Colby, he survived a lot longer than he should've and really had the least to be bitter about, but he came out spitting fire. I guess he was just making his grand survivor exit.

You may be right about JT, I had actually forgot he is a past winner. He is actually a classic example of a guy who won by default.

Colby was very odd last night and through out.

[wuapinmon]

I told my wife that they should do a season comprised solely of people who were voted off first or second in their season. Survivor: Hope Springs Infernal!

They could even reverse the prize money order....first off gets the million, second off gets $100k.

Of course, if they maintained the current game, then they would have to have major counseling in place for the first person voted off THAT season.

[MarkGrace]

Watching Sandra last night was pretty much unbearable given how much she mostly sucked throughout the season, but here's where you have to give her credit: she was defiant to Russell and still somehow made it to the end.

Once the game got to a certain point, pretty much everyone felt the best way to make it to the end was to cozy up to Russell. But Sandra was openly defiant to him the whole time, and still hung around until the very end where the others who took a similar stance ended up getting the boot.

Also, she's got major scoreboard at this point.

[MarkGrace]

It's just surprising though that given all that, he's able to control the game the way he is and that someone somewhere wasn't convinced or rather enough people weren't convinced to get rid of him. Maybe it was Parv's strategy to keep him around because she knew she could beat him in a vote.

We actually mentioned this last night in our little viewing group. None of the contestants talked about it outright, but at a certain point they likely wanted to be in the top 3 with Russell.

About 2/3 into the season it was clear that he had crossed so many people there wasn't a chance in hell he was going to win. If you are Jerri, Colby, Rupert, Parv, Sandra, etc., he's absolutely the guy you wanted to be sitting next to at the end.

[RobinFinderson]

I agree with Russel, the game is flawed. It too often rewards the lamest player that makes it to the final three. Booo to that, and Russel's suggestion that America play a part in the final vote is a good one.

[UtahDan]

I agree with Russel, the game is flawed. It too often rewards the lamest player that makes it to the final three. Booo to that, and Russel's suggestion that America play a part in the final vote is a good one.

Don't you think that would just encourage really, really over the top behavior? This is why I say go back to a final two. That way a person can Russell their way to $100K, but not to $1M.

[RobinFinderson]

Don't you think that would just encourage really, really over the top behavior? This is why I say go back to a final two. That way a person can Russell their way to $100K, but not to $1M.

I can think of serious flaws with letting America vote as well. The biggest flaw would be simply this -- our perception of the players is largely determined by editing. By letting America choose the winner, we are essentially letting the producers choose the winner.

But I don't have any problem with encouraging really, really over the top behavior. Hell, it is an entertainment, right? The wilder the better. I don't watch Survivor to have my own ethical views reinforced.

I would also like to see Survivor go into a real survival direction, where the social game plays second fiddle to actual survival skills. I remember during the first two seasons thinking that I would love to be on the show, because I know how to make fire out of nothing, and I could be a pretty effective spear fisher. Once I realized that the real meaning of 'survival' in the show had a lot more to do with carnival games and social intrigue, I lost a lot of interest... up until Russell proved how entertaining the social intrigue could be.

[DrumNFeather]

I think if America was represented with one vote in the thing that'd be fine. Maybe cut the jury by one or add to it by one.

You could tell last night that Probst was pretty fed up with Russell. Which makes me think that as I think Fiyero reported, they essentially knew who won and Russell decided he was going to come in and be a dick because at that point he had nothing to lose.

[Surfah]

Don't you think that would just encourage really, really over the top behavior? This is why I say go back to a final two. That way a person can Russell their way to $100K, but not to $1M.

What Robin said is my only gripe with America voting. The producers can manipulate the outcome with editing. Perhaps a better solution is to give the jury a 1/3 of the vote or maybe 1/2 with America the other half or third.

I think it would encourage over the top behavior, but they wouldn't make it to the end. I liken it to American Idol. You have people that will stay for a little bit, Sanjaya and that weird ass Norman Gentle guy from last year come to mind. Eventually, America will get sick of their schtick and bounce them out. I actually am not sure Russell would have even made it to the top 3 this year had America voted.

[dabrockster]

Was anyone else insanely entertained watching Colby cry when he saw his bro and then relentlessly bitching him out in the challenge?

I found that pretty stupid considering he was to blame for his horrible throwing..