Ah, Utah County.

[Pheidippides]

Why are you the center of MLM activity in the nation?

A family recently got involved in essential oils - something I consider to be medical quackery to the extent that there are significant health claims associated with it, but harmless and fragrant quackery. Said family member approached me for my opinion on starting a home business selling the oils.

I looked at a vial of the stuff and there was an Orem address on it. Hmm, I think. All I have to do is see the phrase direct selling and that should be a clincher. And whadya know, the website has it all over. Typical MLM stuff with lots of fluff and chiropractors pretending to be experts on internal medicine. That sort of thing.

The thing that surprised me was that I had to do a bunch of convincing of the person after that point. Apparently the MLM bit was not a deterrent at all. No, she knew all about that. But hey, this product is wonderful and I can make a ton of money selling it and hooray!

After my typical economic diatribe did little more to dissuade, I got an idea: surely, if MLMs work on faulty information in the marketplace, with something as fungible as essential oil I could find comparable products on the interwebs and show how much more expensive they were.

So I undertook a search, found some stuff, created a simple side-by-side comparison, and ran price differentials.

The results even shocked me. Average markup of 300%. One as high as 700%. The only discernible difference is that the MLM stuff is marketed as certified therapeutic (and claims to be the only one that is), but when you start digging you see that the certification is both meaningless and also a self-certified registered trademark. IOW, it would be impossible for anybody else to get this certification because only the MLM is allowed to use it.

My family member walked away feeling sheepish but convinced. I walked away pondering that the entire tip-off to me was that it was a product from Orem.

What is it about Utah County that makes MLMs spring up there? It's been that way since I was a kid.

[Jeff Lebowski]

It's a mystery.

[Commando]

It's also the epicenter of places that annoy Socialists.

[Pheidippides]

It's a mystery.

I can't figure it out. If it were a Mormon thing you'd see it in SLC/Ogden too, no? And I'm not saying those places are free of it but the epicenter is almost always the UC.

I literally do no know anybody in the UC involved in such a thing, nor did I for the 15 plus years I lived there (disclosure: I was a kid for 11 of them).

I don't want this to be a Utah bashing thread. I'm just curious as to why this phenomenon is so prevalent there.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I can't figure it out. If it were a Mormon thing you'd see it in SLC/Ogden too, no? And I'm not saying those places are free of it but the epicenter is almost always the UC.

I literally do no know anybody in the UC involved in such a thing, nor did I for the 15 plus years I lived there (disclosure: I was a kid for 11 of them).

I don't want this to be a Utah bashing thread. I'm just curious as to why this phenomenon is so prevalent there.

My guess would be that it feeds on itself. I think the people who start new versions of these companies are former employees/managers/investors in previous MLMs. They make lotto money. The biggest homes and estates in UC are typically the MLM owners. It seems as if there is no end to the money you can make if you have no ethics.

There was an article in the Des News or somewhere a couple of years ago where they interviewed the guy who started Tahitian Cat Pee ....err.... Noni Juice. He said that a few years earlier he was visiting Tahiti and he drove over a hill and came upon the sight of a Noni tree forest in the light of the setting sun and "...it was revealed to me that God had preserved these trees til the latter days for the healing of His people." I almost vomited on the paper.

[Coach McGuirk]

My guess would be that it feeds on itself. I think the people who start new versions of these companies are former employees/managers/investors in previous MLMs. They make lotto money. The biggest homes and estates in UC are typically the MLM owners. It seems as if there is no end to the money you can make if you have no ethics.

There was an article in the Des News or somewhere a couple of years ago where they interviewed the guy who started Tahitian Cat Pee ....err.... Noni Juice. He said that a few years earlier he was visiting Tahiti and he drove over a hill and came upon the sight of a Noni tree forest in the light of the setting sun and "...it was revealed to me that God had preserved these trees til the latter days for the healing of His people." I almost vomited on the paper.

This is true. Xango's founders were originally at Noni. Essential Oils has basis in Nu Skin or that other company out of Spanish Fork.

We are the Equivalent to Silicone Valley, Multi Level Valley

[Pheidippides]

My guess would be that it feeds on itself. I think the people who start new versions of these companies are former employees/managers/investors in previous MLMs. They make lotto money. The biggest homes and estates in UC are typically the MLM owners. It seems as if there is no end to the money you can make if you have no ethics.

There was an article in the Des News or somewhere a couple of years ago where they interviewed the guy who started Tahitian Cat Pee ....err.... Noni Juice. He said that a few years earlier he was visiting Tahiti and he drove over a hill and came upon the sight of a Noni tree forest in the light of the setting sun and "...it was revealed to me that God had preserved these trees til the latter days for the healing of His people." I almost vomited on the paper.

This was precisely what I told my family member. They do one MLM, it tanks, they start a new one, make a killing, rinse, cycle, repeat. The product itself is irrelevant, doubly so if it is unique and bot fungible (a key mistake in this business - doterra is the name).

Downliners are proxies for employees, only if you paid said employees less than minimum wage, gave them no benefits, were not subject to any employment laws, and asked them to sacrifice half of their friendships for the company. Ridiculous.

And when I looked at the bios, whatdya know? Former MLM experience all.

I see all sorts of "spiritual" experiences in materials for a lot of the distributors. I hope and it's just a side effect of location and nothing more. At least I want to believe that rather than something more nefarious.

[DU Ute]

"...it was revealed to me that God had preserved these trees til the latter days for the healing of His people."

"but using those trees to manipulate and exploit people to the tune of millions of dollars, that was my idea."

[mtnbiker]

We are the Equivalent to Silicone Valley, Multi Level Valley

Wow, does Goatnapper know about that?

[kccougar]

The only way to make money in an MLM is to be in on the "ground floor". Which means there always has to be a new "ground floor" to get in on. People end up jumping from one to the next in an endless parade of useless products.

[TripletDaddy]

I have noticed that the MLM industry here is like porn in the Valley. Nobody wants to admit that they are involved. When we moved to our new ward in North U-Co, I met a really nice family at Church. They were in the process of moving out of their home that very week. While exchanging pleasantries, I asked what he did for a living. He gave what I consider to be the telltale answer...."um.....I'm in sales."

Sales. Not the name of a company. Not a specific vocation. But a generic, "sales."

After chatting a bit more, he told me (admitted?) he worked for an MLM and was relocating to Germany to head up something or other over there.

I have noticed that more often than not, when you ask people what they do, they either tell you the name of the company (if it is a recognizable brand name), they tell you their vocation (I'm a doctor, I'm an attorney), they admit they are unemployed (I'm an entrepreneur, I do a lot of different things, I run my own small company) or, if they are in MLM, they obfuscate (I'm in sales...). Almost without exception, when I meet people here that tell me they are in "sales," they are MLM.

Back home, I noticed a similar pattern of deception among the migrant Primericans that moved in and out of our ward. You'd ask what they did for a living and they would all be "personal financial planners" that for some reason or another were driving old Toyota Corollas with a car seat in the back and some faded BYU off campus housing parking sticker still in the window.

Mos are weird sometimes.

[Pheidippides]

The only way to make money in an MLM is to be in on the "ground floor". Which means there always has to be a new "ground floor" to get in on. People end up jumping from one to the next in an endless parade of useless products.

Yup.

After I had my conversation, I retired to bed and ended up watching The Joneses on Netflix. Not the greatest movie in the world but not totally putrid either, but that's not the point. The real point that struck me is that at some level the concept of the Joneses and MLMs are the same: push ethical bounds to sell a lifestyle that is an illusion.

I always figured there had to be a hefty markup on products but my research last night shocked me. Take one example: frankincense. Ignoring whether or not this stuff actually works or not (like I said, I think it is fine for aromatherapy and bullshit for everything else - modern-day snake oil), the process difference was staggering. Over 600% when I calculated it on a per ml basis. So even if you buy into this stuff, why would you get it from the MLM when you can just get it on Amazon for 1/6th the price?

The arguments for using this specific overpriced oil are hilarious, btw. They tout all of these nifty things like the fact the oil is from mother effing Oman! Not some cut rate California oil - this stuff is the good old-world shit! And they use processes that are hundreds of years old, which is a coincidence because I do the same when I wipe my ass!

Props should go to the entire industry for using frankincense though. I mean, if it's good enough for the King of the Jews, of course it will cure my headache!

[Coach McGuirk]

The only way to make money in an MLM is to be in on the "ground floor". Which means there always has to be a new "ground floor" to get in on. People end up jumping from one to the next in an endless parade of useless products.

Maybe the only way for "sales" people to make money.

[SteelBlue]

Yup.

After I had my conversation, I retired to bed and ended up watching The Joneses on Netflix. Not the greatest movie in the world but not totally putrid either, but that's not the point. The real point that struck me is that at some level the concept of the Joneses and MLMs are the same: push ethical bounds to sell a lifestyle that is an illusion.

I thought that movie was at worst interesting. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that their form of guerilla advertising has actually been used in the past. I think it does get used in a similar sense through reality tv.

And they use processes that are hundreds of years old, which is a coincidence because I do the same when I wipe my ass!

That's a great line.

[Pheidippides]

I thought that movie was at worst interesting. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that their form of guerilla advertising has actually been used in the past. I think it does get used in a similar sense through reality tv.

I agree - I did like the movie - although I was a bit freaked when the "daughter" jumped in bed with the "dad" (I didn't really know the plot or premise before I started watching).