The Official Civil War Thread

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Jeff Lebowski
    Corporate lackey for Jesus
    • Nov 2008
    • 69527

    #1

    The Official Civil War Thread

    The Civil War started 150 years ago this month. The next four years are sure to bring a large number of activities related to the anniversary. We have had some great discussions here about the CW, including a little hijack the other day in a different thread. I would like to carve out a spot here for such discussions and I look forward to sharing thoughts and discussions with you all on this endlessly fascinating topic.

    I will throw something out here to get things started. It always interested me how both sides in the CW seemed to firmly believe that God was on their side. Ironically, the South was perhaps most fervently convinced that God would sustain them. Stonewall Jackson was arguably one of the most religious military leaders, often refusing to do battle on Sunday and always referencing religious themes in his communications.

    With that in mind, I ran across something the other day that struck me. A few weeks after Sherman had conquered Atlanta and sent Hood and the Army of the Tennessee off to the West, Sherman gave notice to the mayor of Atlanta that the city was now a military base and that all civilians should be evacuated as he did not want to be responsible for their safety and care. This resulted in a heated exchange of letters between Sherman and the mayor. I thought this part was terrific:

    Mayor Calhoun: "Permit me to say that the unprecedented measure you propose transcends, in studied and ingenious cruelty, all acts ever brought to my attention in the dark history of war. In the name of God and humanity, I protest."

    Sherman: "In the name of common sense, I ask you not to appeal to a just God in such a sacrilegious manner. You who, in the midst of peace and prosperity, have plunged a nation into war - dark and cruel war - who dared and badgered us into battle, insulted our flag, seized our arsenals and forts, ... (he continued with a long list of confederate sins). Talk thus to the marines, but not to me, who have seen these things. ... If we must be enemies, let us be men and fight it out as we propose to do, and not deal in such hypocritical appeals to God and humanity. God will judge us in due time, and he will pronounce whether it be more humane to fight with a town full of women and the families of a brave people at our backs, or to remove them to places of safety among their own friends."

    Source: The Civil War, a Narrative by Shelby Foote. Volume III, page 602.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster
  • Surfah
    Where's Wallace?
    • Nov 2008
    • 33726

    #2
    Wow. That is a fantastic quote by Sherman. As we drove alongside Fredericksburg Battlefield on the way to church today I told Gidget that we need to start hiking through Chancelorsville again since the weather is turning more pleasant.

    Have you read Foote's entire Narrative?
    "Nobody listens to Turtle."
    -Turtle
    sigpic

    Comment

    • Jeff Lebowski
      Corporate lackey for Jesus
      • Nov 2008
      • 69527

      #3
      Originally posted by Surfah View Post
      Wow. That is a fantastic quote by Sherman. As we drove alongside Fredericksburg Battlefield on the way to church today I told Gidget that we need to start hiking through Chancelorsville again since the weather is turning more pleasant.

      Have you read Foote's entire Narrative?
      Almost done. I am kind of sad to be reaching the end as I have enjoyed it so much.
      "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
      "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
      "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

      Comment

      • Devildog
        Motor Boatin' SOB
        • Oct 2010
        • 1239

        #4
        This is one of my favorite hymns. The final verse is powerful and holds special significance for this country.

        [YOUTUBE]IJJm5amVw3w&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
        "We should remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school."
        -Thucydides

        "Study strategy over the years and achieve the spirit of the warrior. Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men."
        -Miyamoto Musashi

        Si vis pacem, para bellum

        Comment

        • San Juan Sun
          Kicked to the curb
          • Dec 2009
          • 9214

          #5
          For anyone looking for a nice, readable volume on the Civil War, I would recommend this:

          [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Battle-Cry-Freedom-Oxford-History/dp/019516895X/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1303680152&sr=8-9"]Amazon.com: Battle Cry of Freedom: The Civil War Era (Oxford History of the United States) (9780195168952): James M. McPherson: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51n6x2VKotL.@@AMEPARAM@@51n6x2VKotL[/ame]
          "Sure, I fought. I had to fight all my life just to survive. They were all against me. Tried every dirty trick to cut me down, but I beat the bastards and left them in the ditch."

          - Ty Cobb

          Comment

          • All-American
            Right, as Usual
            • Nov 2008
            • 15643

            #6
            Originally posted by San Juan Sun View Post
            For anyone looking for a nice, readable volume on the Civil War, I would recommend this:

            Amazon.com: Battle Cry of Freedom: The Civil War Era (Oxford History of the United States) (9780195168952): James M. McPherson: Books
            I've got this on my shelf. Excellent work.
            τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν

            Comment

            • happyone
              Board Bookworm
              • Mar 2009
              • 5389

              #7
              When I was at Ft. Campbell, I used to go out to Ft. Donaldson all the time. That was the first Civil War battlefield I ever visited. To echo Surfah, it did feel like hallowed ground. All of the Civil War battlefields I've visited have felt that way.

              I may be small, but I'm slow.

              A veteran - whether active duty, retired, or national guard or reserve is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to, "The United States of America ", for an amount of "up to and including my life - it's an honor."

              Comment

              • wuapinmon
                Soul Plumber
                • Dec 2008
                • 30711

                #8
                This thread needs a new title.
                "Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
                The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --Solon

                Comment

                • Jeff Lebowski
                  Corporate lackey for Jesus
                  • Nov 2008
                  • 69527

                  #9
                  Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                  This thread needs a new title.
                  That one took me a minute. Well done.
                  "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                  "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                  "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                  Comment

                  • TripletDaddy
                    sweet triple
                    • Nov 2008
                    • 58186

                    #10
                    I went ahead and bought the app. Very cool stuff.
                    Fitter. Happier. More Productive.

                    sigpic

                    Comment

                    • PaloAltoCougar
                      Semper infra dignitatem
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 16921

                      #11
                      This thread will be a good and ongoing reminder for me. I've read a few things about the Civil War (I really liked The Killer Angels), but this seems like a great time to read more. I'll probably start with Battle Cry of Freedom.

                      I remember the centennial of the war, and how the SF Chronicle ran a series of articles beginning in 1961 (I was 8 when they started) over the next four years. I can't say I read every one with much understanding, but I loved the pictures (lots of daguerreotypes) and the shorter narratives. It will be great to do it again.

                      Comment

                      • Parrot Head
                        Operation Hot Mother
                        • Nov 2008
                        • 2322

                        #12
                        There was a good article in Time a couple of weeks ago on the cause of the Civil War, 150 Years After Fort Sumter: Why We're Still Fighting the Civil War. It actually rang true to a lot of what I remember growing up as people would focus on reasons beyond slavery. There are also some great photos in the article that show how some significant battlefields have not been preserved and are now urban areas.

                        A few weeks before Captain George S. James sent the first mortar round arcing through the predawn darkness toward Fort Sumter, South Carolina, on April 12, 1861, Abraham Lincoln cast his Inaugural Address as a last-ditch effort to win back the South. A single thorny issue divided the nation, he declared: "One section of our country believes slavery is right and ought to be extended, while the other believes it is wrong and ought not to be extended. This is the only substantial dispute."

                        It was not a controversial statement at the time. Indeed, Southern leaders were saying similar things during those fateful days. But 150 years later, Americans have lost that clarity about the cause of the Civil War, the most traumatic and transformational event in U.S. history, which left more than 625,000 dead — more Americans killed than in both world wars combined.

                        Shortly before the Fort Sumter anniversary, Harris Interactive polled more than 2,500 adults across the country, asking what the North and South were fighting about. A majority, including two-thirds of white respondents in the 11 states that formed the Confederacy, answered that the South was mainly motivated by "states' rights" rather than the future of slavery.
                        I have nothing else to say at this time.

                        Comment

                        • TripletDaddy
                          sweet triple
                          • Nov 2008
                          • 58186

                          #13
                          Update on the app...the default for cache memory seems to be 5g!

                          I don't want 5g of pics in my cache. That is a huge app! Fortunately you can adjust it if you want.
                          Fitter. Happier. More Productive.

                          sigpic

                          Comment

                          • happyone
                            Board Bookworm
                            • Mar 2009
                            • 5389

                            #14
                            I misspoke, the first Civil War battlefield I ever visited was Ft. Sumter, and other sites around Charleston. Ft. Donaldson is the one I have visited the most however.

                            I may be small, but I'm slow.

                            A veteran - whether active duty, retired, or national guard or reserve is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to, "The United States of America ", for an amount of "up to and including my life - it's an honor."

                            Comment

                            • Solon
                              Lost in the flood
                              • Nov 2008
                              • 5747

                              #15
                              Originally posted by happyone View Post
                              I misspoke, the first Civil War battlefield I ever visited was Ft. Sumter, and other sites around Charleston. Ft. Donaldson is the one I have visited the most however.
                              It's been open for a couple of years now, but the "new" Civil War museum at Gettysburg is absolutely fantastic. I believe it's intended to be the flagship museum for the entire war, not just the battle of Gettysburg. I went a few times while I was still living in PA, and just couldn't get through the entire thing. It's extremely well done.

                              There are also several nice private museums in the town of Gettysburg itself.

                              I've always understood the Civil War as a war caused ultimately by the upheavals of industrialization.
                              "More crazy people to Provo go than to any other town in the state."
                              -- Iron County Record. 23 August, 1912. (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...23/ed-1/seq-4/)

                              Comment

                              Working...