Crying Women

[wuapinmon]

This has been a bad week for making women cry. I seem to have a talent for it. Holding 30+ oral exams with my students, predominantly women, on Tuesday didn't help the total.

They all told me that they weren't crying because of me, but I'm starting to notice a trend.

How many women do you think I've made cry this week?

[wally]

The best way to get somebody to stop crying is to scream at them to stop acting like a baby. Best to include some profanity for good measure, too.

[beelzebabette]

Geez, when I make men cry, I tend to brag about it.

[Katy Lied]

Are your oral exams held with just you and the student? Or do you have a third party in there as well? Other professors?

I ask because we had a really tough time with this when I taught in Eastern Europe. Oral exams with just the male professor and the female student behind closed doors.

[Clark Addison]

The last person I made cry (that I am aware of) was a woman at work. She wanted to work on my team and I ended up not hiring her.

It made me feel very bad, but I admit it made my ego feel OK.

[Surfah]

Are your oral exams held with just you and the student? Or do you have a third party in there as well? Other professors?

I ask because we had a really tough time with this when I taught in Eastern Europe. Oral exams with just the male professor and the female student behind closed doors.

I think this may highlight Wuap's problem.

[marsupial]

When you make them cry, do you starting singing:

"no woman, no cry."

[TripletDaddy]

Don't worry about it. Crying in settings like that is a manipulation tool. Ignore it and give them the grade they deserve.

[wuapinmon]

Geez, when I make men cry, I tend to brag about it.

Please swap out the feeling that I'm bragging for one of exasperation. I don't know what I'm doing to make people cry. I told one woman, "Stop calling yourself stupid. You're not. You're a bright and capable student, and there's no academic reason why you cannot be successful in this class. It really makes me feel sad when you call yourself stupid. I don't believe it, and I bet that you don't either." BOOM! Tears.

Are your oral exams held with just you and the student? Or do you have a third party in there as well? Other professors?

I ask because we had a really tough time with this when I taught in Eastern Europe. Oral exams with just the male professor and the female student behind closed doors.

I leave the door open, always, unless the student requests it to talk about health or family issues. When that happens, I always call another faculty member on my hall and tell them, "I'm going to be talking to a student for awhile with my door closed, if anyone comes looking for me, just tell them to knock." However, the exams are just me and the student.

I think this may highlight Wuap's problem.

How so?

When you make them cry, do you starting singing:

"no woman, no cry."

Every single time. Seriously.

Don't worry about it. Crying in settings like that is a manipulation tool. Ignore it and give them the grade they deserve.

Well, I've been at this long enough to give them the grade they deserve; crying can't change your prior performance.

[Babs]

Don't worry about it. Crying in settings like that is a manipulation tool. Ignore it and give them the grade they deserve.

this is exactly what I was thinking. girls used to do it in debate all the time, too.

[TripletDaddy]

this is exactly what I was thinking. girls used to do it in debate all the time, too.

I've seen it everywhere....performance evals, raises, presentations, dates, wedding night, marital counseling, etc. It gets old.

[beelzebabette]

Please swap out the feeling that I'm bragging for one of exasperation. I don't know what I'm doing to make people cry. I told one woman, "Stop calling yourself stupid. You're not. You're a bright and capable student, and there's no academic reason why you cannot be successful in this class. It really makes me feel sad when you call yourself stupid. I don't believe it, and I bet that you don't either." BOOM! Tears.

I don't pretend to speak for all women, but I've taken the liberty of highlighting the sentences above that have bullying/emotional-manipulation potential. Maybe you just need more spacers in between.

As an aside, reading what I just typed reminds me of a conversation with my freshman roommates as they attempted to introduce me to the conversational concept of "beating around the bush." So, maybe that's what I'm suggesting. I don't really know, but I am trying to suggest that delivery matters.

[Babs]

I've seen it everywhere....dates, wedding night...

Of course in certain cases it's probably warranted. Not to imply anything.

[wuapinmon]

I don't pretend to speak for all women, but I've taken the liberty of highlighting the sentences above that have bullying/emotional-manipulation potential. Maybe you just need more spacers in between.

As an aside, reading what I just typed reminds me of a conversation with my freshman roommates as they attempted to introduce me to the conversational concept of "beating around the bush." So, maybe that's what I'm suggesting. I don't really know, but I am trying to suggest that delivery matters.

My tone isn't harsh, confrontational, or otherwise stern. I try to sound as sincere as I feel when I say it, and I don't just blurt it out. So many female students call themselves stupid. It's almost unbelievable. I'll have multiple female students each semester call themselves idiots, stupid, morons, retarded, whatever you can think. Not once, but all the time. And sometimes it sounds like they mean it. It makes me sad on many levels. One of the sadder realities of Southern culture is that oftentimes women feel they have to act dumb to succeed. Ultimately I think this is counterproductive in a professional environment. The region where I work is definitely Old South, so perhaps it's more prevalent here, but I should add that countless New York "City" women at Tulane did this, alongside their California and Utah counterparts at BYU. Maybe this thread should be about why self-deprecation is almost de rigueur for some women.

[Babs]

I think you're missing the point. I agree with BBB that the women will only see your comments as a confirmation of their suspicions about themselves.