College class books

[RC Vikings]

Why so much?

[Solon]

Why so much?

College students (and their parents, right?) are cash-cows.

The costs for science books and computer-supported materials is out of control.

Even my textbook for ancient Greece runs $45 used. Lots of color photos, but come on.

I think costs are going to come down as schools adopt electronic platforms. I can legally use up to 10% of a book and make it (electronically) available to my students without any cost to them at all. The few with electronic readers (kindles, ipads, etc.) bring them to class with all the semester's readings already on them.

Colleges, computer companies and stores, etc. all try to fleece the parents to an unbelievable degree. The Penn State bookstore used to "suggest" a $2000 notebook for incoming freshmen. Totally ridiculous. I can't tell you how many parents (usualy fathers) I've seen wandering around that weekend before classes start with a dazed "how much is this costing?" look on their faces.

Poor folks. Higher ed. is a huge business.

Princeton, I hear, is experimenting with making deals directly with the publishers to only publish electronic versions or portions of their books; this should bring the costs down immensely since there will be no printing costs.

I say "should" but I'm skeptical.

At any rate, it allows for more flexibility.

[Babs]

Princeton, I hear, is experimenting with making deals directly with the publishers to only publish electronic versions or portions of their books; this should bring the costs down immensely since there will be no printing costs.

I say "should" but I'm skeptical.

You are smart.

The printing and distribution process accounts for less than ten percent of the cost of materials. Format is essentially irrelevant.

Academic publishers keep prices inflated by releasing new editions every two years. I always advise cost-conscious students to buy the most recent "old" edition. The pages won't match, but the texts are virtually indistinguishable. You can save 80% or more this way.

[Solon]

You are smart.

The printing and distribution process accounts for less than ten percent of the cost of materials. Format is essentially irrelevant.

Academic publishers keep prices inflated by releasing new editions every two years. I always advise cost-conscious students to buy the most recent "old" edition. The pages won't match, but the texts are virtually indistinguishable. You can save 80% or more this way.

Especially when students can pick up the used older edition textbook for literally 4 or 5 bucks. I used to give various edition page-numbers on the syllabus in an effort to provide some relief, but I found that most of them just didn't care. I mean, they were paying 10-20K per year to go to Penn State. What was another hundred bucks on Dad's credit card?

My new school's students, however, are much more cost-conscious and I spent the first day of class showing them how to buy our coursebooks for super-cheap (Plutarch and Herodotus don't change too much, after all).

It's all a scam. And it's no wonder to me that students have unrealistic expectations of good grades and good jobs. You pay that much for something, you should get something back.

[RC Vikings]

I think costs are going to come down as schools adopt electronic platforms. I can legally use up to 10% of a book and make it (electronically) available to my students without any cost to them at all. The few with electronic readers (kindles, ipads, etc.) bring them to class with all the semester's readings already on them.

Colleges, computer companies and stores, etc. all try to fleece the parents to an unbelievable degree. The Penn State bookstore used to "suggest" a $2000 notebook for incoming freshmen. Totally ridiculous. I can't tell you how many parents (usualy fathers) I've seen wandering around that weekend before classes start with a dazed "how much is this costing?" look on their faces.

Poor folks. Higher ed. is a huge business.

Princeton, I hear, is experimenting with making deals directly with the publishers to only publish electronic versions or portions of their books; this should bring the costs down immensely since there will be no printing costs.

I say "should" but I'm skeptical.

At any rate, it allows for more flexibility.

It seems colleges would be at the forefront of getting information out electronically but they seem to be dragging their feet on this one. Why is their not more outrage over how bad these kids (parents) get fleeced.

[falafel]

It seems colleges would be at the forefront of getting information out electronically but they seem to be dragging their feet on this one. Why is their not more outrage over how bad these kids (parents) get fleeced.

Aren't college professors the primary authors of all these books? They've got a vested interest in keeping the prices high.

[Solon]

Aren't college professors the primary authors of all these books? They've got a vested interest in keeping the prices high.

I guess, but I don't know anyone who's made much money on writing textbooks except for Jack Spielvogel. The universities are just as bad if not worse at fleecing the parents. Various fees like parking, student association fees, etc. are going up every year. Food on campus is really expensive (although the quality in some of these places is through the roof), and big schools sign contracts with coke, pepsi, etc. to assure a monopoly. A 12-oz. can of pepsi on Penn State campus will set you back $1. "Official" gear includes $55 sweatshirts and $30 t-shirts, and there's pressure on students to buy that week's football t-shirt for the home game's whiteout. State College is not an expensive town otherwise, but the ancillary costs (those in addition to tuition and housing) are out of control.

There is some call for reform on the textbook front. Pennsylvania's state legislature recently passed a bill requiring teachers to choose "reasonably priced" textbooks. But that doesn't mean anything really. The one concession it has caused is that teachers have to submit their textbook requests much earlier (6-8 months) than before so students can comparison-shop. It's a small victory, but better than nothing.

I also think studetns should do a better job taking advantage of the library. Libraries almost always have copies of the textbooks that can be put on reserve. Sure, it means you have to actually go into the library, but it's "free." (i.e. paid for by student fees) Students can be really reluctant to put in the effort, though.

[Moliere]

Poor folks. Higher ed. is a huge business.

It's a huge business that is partially subsidized by government through grants, low interest loans, and tax credits. The more access one has to these three things, the more enticing it is to get more education and with more people seeking higher education it drives up prices. Also, the grants, low interest loans, and tax credits just artificially inflate prices to compensate for the government subsidy.

It is beginning to look more and more like the real estate market where the government provides tax deductions, tax credits, guarantees on low interest loans, and the appearance of a sound investment. When you provide those things it naturally increases demand and drives up the price. I'm not saying there will be an "education bubble" like there was a "real estate" bubble but I'm sure the government subsidies have something to do with skyrocketing costs....well that and the fact professors churn out a new edition of a book every 1 to 2 years.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Having just finished authoring my first book (as a co-author), I can testify that writing a book involves a huge investment of time. Several years in our case. I am sympathetic to the need to recover costs.

[Babs]

Especially when students can pick up the used older edition textbook for literally 4 or 5 bucks. I used to give various edition page-numbers on the syllabus in an effort to provide some relief, but I found that most of them just didn't care. I mean, they were paying 10-20K per year to go to Penn State. What was another hundred bucks on Dad's credit card?

yeah, I noticed that among the law students, too. I spent $500 less on my books than a couple of kids in the same section. Regarding used books, one of them said to me, "Law school is serious. I can't afford to risk using books with the wrong highlighting."

[Sleeping in EQ]

Aren't college professors the primary authors of all these books? They've got a vested interest in keeping the prices high.

Professors are waaaaaaay down the list of those keeping textbook prices high. Most of them have exactly zero influence over the cover price and authors aren't paid that much. Textbook authors are not in NYT bestseller territory.

Some fields require new editions every few years. Blaming professors for this fact is foolish. Publishers rub their hands to put out new editions.

The publishers are on the top of the list of those keeping prices high. They talk about "small runs" and the rising costs of paper. School administrators have some influence over prices too.

[Babs]

Having just finished authoring my first book (as a co-author), I can testify that writing a book involves a huge investment of time. Several years in our case. I am sympathetic to the need to recover costs.

Right, nobody's arguing with that. It's just that the author's cut constitutes maybe 12% of the cost of a book. Usually far less. It's the retailer and publisher that profit.

[wuapinmon]

Having just finished authoring my first book (as a co-author), I can testify that writing a book involves a huge investment of time. Several years in our case. I am sympathetic to the need to recover costs.

As am I. There's no fleecing going on save the multiple editions.

Information wants to be free.

Information wants to be expensive.

(not my lines, in case you've been under a rock since '93)

[pelagius]

You've guys (I mean the other academics here) are looking at it wrong. Look, it's just monopoly rents. We pick a book for a course and that makes the publisher a monopolist. Their only competition is the "used stock of books." So they do things to make the the "used stock" less valuable.

The tragedy isn't that the text books cost a lot. They tragedy is that we aren't getting very much of the "economic rents." We create the monopolistic position. All we get is free desk copies and maybe a coffee mug from the publisher at Christmas. - we're idiots (yes. I know it would actually be a very bad move for "us" tp try to capture these economic rents).

[il Padrino Ute]

Having just finished authoring my first book (as a co-author), I can testify that writing a book involves a huge investment of time. Several years in our case. I am sympathetic to the need to recover costs.

Are you going to have a book signing? If so, I'm there!