Polygamy justification?

[Moliere]

What I was trying to flesh out here (obviously not very effectively) was what the preconceived notions are of what form relationships take (sexual and otherwise) in the hereafter compared to how they function in mortality.

Yes, and this goes along with my point that both Mormons and anti-Mormons and all others are all sitting in Plato's cave, just at different view points. Ultimatily we'll find out that relationships in the hereafter are much different. For instance, we will be with our families forever, but won't that be weird to be the same age as your kids and dad?

In the end, not gettting resealed is playing it safe. If I really need to get sealed again, that can happen in the eternities.

[Rosebud]

Polygamy hurt 19th century Mormon wives' evolutionary fitness

Polygamy practiced by some 19th century Mormon men had the curious effect of suppressing the overall offspring numbers of Mormon women in plural marriages, say scientists from Indiana University Bloomington and three other institutions in the March 2011 issue of Evolution and Human Behavior.

So if polygamy (or the female equivalent, polyandry) is disadvantageous to most of the sequestered sex and most of the mate-sequestering sex, why should such systems survive?

"The complete answer is still forthcoming," Wade said. "One thing we know now, based on rigorous studies in many species, particularly the fruit fly is that selection can be so strong on males that it can drag the entire species off of a naturally selected viability optimum."

[SeattleUte]

This thread contains all anyone need know about the LDS Church. It may be the best Foyer thread. It should have five stars. I'm going to bump it every once in a while. (Not sure what was up with Lebowski; he took leave of his senses it seems, unless he was just being devil's advocate, sharpening debate and insights.)

[Indy Coug]

I haven't had a chance to read this, but I'll throw it out for public consumption

http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/str...-and-theology/

[Uncle Ted]

I haven't had a chance to read this, but I'll throw it out for public consumption

http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/str...-and-theology/

I haven't read the above but Hales seems to be in the camp that Joseph Smith's Polyandry (and a good amount of his polygamy) was non-sexual.

Quinn responded to one of Hales' earlier papers...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/...opOEp449g&dl=1

A summary of Quinn's paper above is given here:

http://runtu.wordpress.com/2012/08/0...ual-polyandry/

Of course, Brian Hales gave his response to Quinn's above paper:

http://josephsmithspolygamy.com/BCH_...o_%20Quinn.pdf

It seems this debate will go on forever.

[SCcoug]

In primary as my co-teacher was giving the lesson on Nauvoo, I was wondering how things would have been different had polygamy never happened. Maybe there would have been no exodus west. Mixing that thought with a reflection on Saturday's game I was left with the conclusion that BYU (or whatever form the church university would have taken) located in one of the largest cities in Illinois would definitely be in a power conference.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I haven't read the above but Hales seems to be in the camp that Joseph Smith's Polyandry (and a good amount of his polygamy) was non-sexual.

Yeah, it is incredible that he continues to promote that position in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

[San Juan Sun]

Yeah, it is incredible that he continues to promote that position in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Interesting, because if even a little bit was sexual, it sort of makes the remaining non-sexual marriages irrelevant.

[Pheidippides]

Yeah, it is incredible that he continues to promote that position in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

I didn't read the entire Quinn article, but what I did read was clear that Quinn doesn't care for him much, from an academic standpoint. Of course this is all meaningless outside of a few nerds like us - Quinn is persona non grata to TBMs, and exMos think that Hales is a moron.

[CJF]

I didn't read the entire Quinn article, but what I did read was clear that Quinn doesn't care for him much, from an academic standpoint. Of course this is all meaningless outside of a few nerds like us - Quinn is persona non grata to TBMs, and exMos think that Hales is a moron.

Not just exMos.

[jay santos]

I haven't had a chance to read this, but I'll throw it out for public consumption

http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/str...-and-theology/

I've skimmed through this article and the other Gary Bergeras and D Michael Quinn reviews and other responses from Hales. I also listened to the four hour Hales MoSto podcast when his book came out and read some stuff then.

Thoughts:

1. The whole thing is a great model for how apologists and critics should talk to each other. All the parties have been respectful. Also they've been good at identifying common ground. It sucks as a lay person to read reviews some of the old guard FARMs Mopologists would run out, because they attempt to destroy EVERYTHING the critic says and allow for no common ground. As a lay person you're forced to choose and unfortunately for the FARMS guys it's easy for people to choose against them. But when the two sides talk respectfully it's easier to cut through what's speculative and what's good solid history and decide for yourself.

2. Polygamy is really confusing.

I think it's tough for the apologists to contend with any of these facts:
--Joseph had sex with at least a dozen women, including the youngest possibly 16, and including polyandrous relationships
--polygamy was the worst kept secret in Nauvoo and cause for a lot of problems. In Joseph's marriage. With faithful believers of the BOM and restoration like William Law.
--a lot of Joseph's actions seem really shady, ie the coercion, the secret meetings, dealing with the husbands in the polyandrous marriages
--the Fannie Alger affair is really out of place with the rest of the polygamous relationships in terms of timing

And it's tough for critics to contend with some of these facts:
--many of the marriages had no sex at all
--Joseph's motives in many cases seem not to be sexually related
--nearly all the women involved were extremely loyal to Joseph in the way the followed him and talked about him

[Uncle Ted]

I am guessing this is why polygamy is an eternal principle...

MBachelor1.jpg
MBachelor2.jpg
MBachelor3.jpg
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/us...mon-women.html

There are simply not enough men that can keep it up (or endure) to the end.

[TripletDaddy]

If those 10 women want to get married they need to start dressing better.

[hostile]

If those 10 women want to get married they need to start dressing better.

http://m.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile3/5...y-lds.html.csp

[TripletDaddy]

http://m.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile3/5...y-lds.html.csp

I wasn't advocating modesty.