Nelson vs Heaps post Idaho game

[jay santos]

So where do we stand?

(and btw, damn you donut and triple for making it awkward every time one posts on a subject with multiple choices for existing threads or whether to start a new one)

I'm not a Nelson or Heaps luvr. I just want the best for the team. I was very pleased with Heaps' play. Yeah the opposition sucks, but he was consistent, accurate, and scored TD's, which he wasn't doing earlier in the year even against bad competition.

It looked like was had a nice, clean plan of starting Nelson through 2012 but I'm sure that's all up in the air right now.

The best thing would be for Heaps to step up, take the job over, and lead us to greatness. The worst thing would be for Heaps to step up, take the job over, and go back to sucking in real games. The less than ideal but acceptable thing is for Nelson to keep the job.

[Shaka]

Jake played well and will get the start next week. I'm sure that will be another blowout, probably worse than last night.

It will be interesting to see if Riley is able to play against Hawaii. If so he probably starts. If Riley can't come back this season then I think Jake's performance against Hawaii and in the bowl game will determine if there's a competition in the spring.

[TripletDaddy]

So where do we stand?

(and btw, damn you donut and triple for making it awkward every time one posts on a subject with multiple choices for existing threads or whether to start a new one)

I'm not a Nelson or Heaps luvr. I just want the best for the team. I was very pleased with Heaps' play. Yeah the opposition sucks, but he was consistent, accurate, and scored TD's, which he wasn't doing earlier in the year even against bad competition.

It looked like was had a nice, clean plan of starting Nelson through 2012 but I'm sure that's all up in the air right now.

The best thing would be for Heaps to step up, take the job over, and lead us to greatness. The worst thing would be for Heaps to step up, take the job over, and go back to sucking in real games. The less than ideal but acceptable thing is for Nelson to keep the job.

I disagree. The best thing would be for Bronco to bring in a dedicated QB coach and coach up Jake. I said earlier in the season that I want going to drink any Kool aid based off these final games....really going back to anything after the first month, with the exception of maybe TCU, OSU, and Hawaii. I'm puzzled by these game by game analyses of Riley or Jakes QB rating. Last night is a great example. Jakes QB rating was through the roof. What does it show? That Jake was good against an awful team.

Where are we now? We are exactly where we were yesterday morning. We have learned almost nothing. Jake winning last night was equivalent to Jake winning at the end of last season against awful teams.

Riley's injury is really unfortunate. Although I did find some irony in the nature of his injury. Despite all predictions to the contrary (including my own), Riley was popped while standing back and passing the ball like a real QB, not while diving recklessly headlong into a wall of linebackers 10 yards past the LOS.

Here is a fearless prediction for next week to underscore the ridiculous nature of Broncos approach to this controversy, now poised to enter its third season: Jake will do well against New Mexico State, BYU will win big. And, using the logic many have used throughout the season, the job is now Jakes, not Riley's. Riley looked awful against TCU and lost that game. He couldn't finish tonight, so Jake came in off the bench and lead the team to victory. It is Jakes job now, injury or no. Time to start printing "Jake Up" t shirts.

Does anyone remember a QB controversy at ANY school (or even NFL) that spanned the course of 3 seasons? I think it is unprecedented. And it is all on Bronco.

[MarkGrace]

Same place as always: wish we weren't wasting these games on riley but realize there's a lot of angles to this thing that don't make the decision that simple.

And if we go into a 3rd straight year of qb controversy, wow, what a clusterf***.

As for heaps, I thought he looked good last night. More confidence, better poise, less deer in the headlights. I do hate how slow he seems to work. He spends so much more time at the line and seems to go far deeper into the snap count than riley. Wish he could find some way to speed it up. In terms of the competition, yeah, it sucked, but he was at least executing the throws. There have been times where he's had plenty of time with a wide open receiver and whiffed the throw, but last night he hit almost everything. Short passes with touch, deep passes with better touch, his patented laser beam across the middle and was hitting most of those timing out routes w/o the ball sailing on him (seemed to do a better job planting his feet and moving into the throw). he did whiff on a couple passes (behind hoff and matthews - but it was nice to see some receivers finally make plays for him on bad throws) and shorted mckay, but most of the throws were right on the money. Made the big mistake with the int, but even there I thought he made the right read and tried to execute the right lob pass and didn't get the correct angle on it. And damn zed can't get off the ground for shit.

[MarkGrace]

Oh yeah, much better post-game performance. A lot more "we" and a lot less "they," "the guys," or some other exclusionary term.

And bronco again called him an nfl qb. I wish hed stop doing that,

[MarkGrace]

Also, you guys know this stuff better than me, but the offense seemed closer its to design to the end of last year than the beginning of this year.

And glad they mixed in some easier throws. That short/intermediate slant to hoff worked about a half dozen times against utah and then when never saw it again (at least not from heaps). We also got that easy screen to apo. Funny thing about that pass is I always feel like it's for apo's benefit, not the qb. But I like seeing some of those easy tosses. And one thing jake seems to have learned by watching riley: throw the damn ball to hoff.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I'm puzzled by these game by game analyses of Riley or Jakes QB rating. Last night is a great example. Jakes QB rating was through the roof. What does it show? That Jake was good against an awful team.

Meh. I will take whatever joy I can get. Last time I saw Jake he was awful against an awful team.

[CardiacCoug]

As for heaps, I thought he looked good last night. More confidence, better poise, less deer in the headlights. I do hate how slow he seems to work. He spends so much more time at the line and seems to go far deeper into the snap count than riley. Wish he could find some way to speed it up. In terms of the competition, yeah, it sucked, but he was at least executing the throws.

Agreed. Maybe I'm reading too much into that, but it seems like Jake still maybe doesn't know the offense as well as he should. He still spends a lot of time looking at his wristband.

Nice to see Jake play well, though, and I would love for him to put the QB controversy to rest by finally getting his act together.

Another thing -- outside of Hoffman I think our WRs suck and our OL underperformed this season and they deserve a lot of the blame for our poor QB play.

[woot]

Very impressed with Jake last night, and if Riley's injury is as bad as it seems, Jake might as well be the one to lead the team the next two weeks at least.

I've been clear that I think coaching is the bigger issue, but that Riley is more effective given the current scheme. That's still the case, but Jake seems to have settled down enough (or been given throws he's able to make) to at least not poop the bed against barely-there defenses, which is all it will take the rest of the regular season. If Riley is healthy for the bowl, I'd like to see him get the start regardless of how Jake does.

A couple years ago a Michigan fan did a big analysis of QB injuries and came away concluding that pocket passers are injured just as often as dual threats. I have to think somebody who runs like Riley might be an exception to that, but sure enough, it was a couple throws from the pocket that finally got him. Jake's big rib injury at the end of last year was similar, as I recall.

It'd be great to come away from this tire fire with a 10-win season. The guys will need all the momentum they can get going into next year, when 7 wins will be much harder than 10 this year.

[woot]

Meh. I will take whatever joy I can get. Last time I saw Jake he was awful against an awful team.

Agreed. Also, Jake's rating wasn't exactly "through the roof". 175 is a good game, but lots of folks (including Riley a few times now) have gotten over 200.

Everything is tempered by the poor competition, but Jake's problem has been missing receivers by miles, which he didn't do last night. I still worry that he'll turn into mush the next time he gets any pressure, but it was fun to see him hitting guys again.

[jay santos]

Previously in this season:
--Heaps inaccurate even against weak competition or on easy pass plays
--Heaps locking in on primary receiver
--Heaps not giving his WR's chance to go up and make play on long balls, overthrowing or trying to make the perfect pass
--Heaps looking far worse than Nelson in games they both play in

Last night:
--Heaps overall very accurate
--Heaps checking off primary receivers
--Heaps giving his receivers a better chance on long balls
--no drop off Nelson to Heaps


Yeah, it's just one data point, but it's a good one.

[Shaka]

Previously in this season:
--Heaps inaccurate even against weak competition or on easy pass plays
--Heaps locking in on primary receiver
--Heaps not giving his WR's chance to go up and make play on long balls, overthrowing or trying to make the perfect pass
--Heaps looking far worse than Nelson in games they both play in

Last night:
--Heaps overall very accurate
--Heaps checking off primary receivers
--Heaps giving his receivers a better chance on long balls
--no drop off Nelson to Heaps


Yeah, it's just one data point, but it's a good one.

All good points bodes well for the future if Jake stays around.

I wouldn't worry much about the snap count thing. Lack of PT is probably just making Jake a little discombobulated when it comes to getting the audible out.

[Hsaru]

Heaps still has a lot of issues, he is far from being a "good" qb at this point. I think he is solid, but one thing is clear that all the people predicting he would have been playing terribly this whole time against garbage teams had he been starting were laughably wrong. I kept hearing oh it doesn't matter he'd still be airmailing all his passes regardless of how open people are.

If Heaps has another good game against New Mexico St. I think you open the QB competition up over the bye week before Hawaii, Nelson won't lose his job to injury, but he should have to keep earning it in practice. If he gets outplayed by Heaps in practice than I say let Heaps get a chance. Otherwise its pretty darn clear how useless all of these late games have been for QB evaluation and that Bronco wants Riley as the team leader and isn't overly concerned if one QB is better than the other.

[woot]

Heaps still has a lot of issues, he is far from being a "good" qb at this point. I think he is solid, but one thing is clear that all the people predicting he would have been playing terribly this whole time against garbage teams had he been starting were laughably wrong. I kept hearing oh it doesn't matter he'd still be airmailing all his passes regardless of how open people are.

If Heaps has another good game against New Mexico St. I think you open the QB competition up over the bye week before Hawaii, Nelson won't lose his job to injury, but he should have to keep earning it in practice. If he gets outplayed by Heaps in practice than I say let Heaps get a chance. Otherwise its pretty darn clear how useless all of these late games have been for QB evaluation and that Bronco wants Riley as the team leader and isn't overly concerned if one QB is better than the other.

Yeah, just because he sucked against terrible teams doesn't mean he would necessarily keep sucking. The available evidence made it an obvious choice to choose Riley over Jake. It still does, given that they're both healthy; Riley yet again outplayed Jake last night in his limited time.

I'm sure you're tempted to feel vindicated in your fight for Jake, but you really shouldn't. We're all happy he played well, it seems we all agree that he has more upside, but he's still only the second-best QB on the roster.

[Hsaru]

Yeah, just because he sucked against terrible teams doesn't mean he would necessarily keep sucking. The available evidence made it an obvious choice to choose Riley over Jake. It still does, given that they're both healthy; Riley yet again outplayed Jake last night in his limited time.

I'm sure you're tempted to feel vindicated in your fight for Jake, but you really shouldn't. We're all happy he played well, it seems we all agree that he has more upside, but he's still only the second-best QB on the roster.

I don't feel vindicated, Jake is not some awesome QB, but the hate he was getting was ridiculous, people were way underselling what kind of QB is. He was playing like crap, but he was still making some damn good throws early in the season, he just needed(and still needs to) get it together mentally.

And Nelson didn't look awesome in the very limited time he had, couple plays before he got hurt he heaved a ball up for grabs on the sideline that looked like a pick(one of the refs even marked the ball as a pick and spotted the ball) and announcers(and I) were pretty shocked they didn't review the play. It looked like the DB caught it clean and got a foot in bounds. Maybe the BYUtv replay had another view, because ESPN never got us a replay. Riley still hasn't learned you can't throw the ball up for grabs as much as he does.