SU's lovefest with KWhitt

[ERCougar]

I'm interested in what his reaction will be to Utah's 5-loss season next year.

KWhitt is not the second coming of Bear Bryant. He's a good coach and was the beneficiary of outstanding QB play, a favorable schedule, a few lucky plays, and an effective defense. The stars don't always align so well. Your fawning over him after one great season looks naive and a little ridiculous.

Let's remember that he's also the coach that lost to UNLV.

[Mormon Red Death]

I'm interested in what his reaction will be to Utah's 5-loss season next year.

KWhitt is not the second coming of Bear Bryant. He's a good coach and was the beneficiary of outstanding QB play, a favorable schedule, a few lucky plays, and an effective defense. The stars don't always align so well. Your fawning over him after one great season looks naive and a little ridiculous.

Let's remember that he's also the coach that lost to UNLV.

Say what you will about Kyle Whittingham but if you give him 2 weeks to prepare for a game his teams are awesome. A year ago Goatnapper put a huge post about how Bronco was a better coach than Kyle was. Kyle has put that debate to bed.

[SeattleUte]

I'm interested in what his reaction will be to Utah's 5-loss season next year.

KWhitt is not the second coming of Bear Bryant. He's a good coach and was the beneficiary of outstanding QB play, a favorable schedule, a few lucky plays, and an effective defense. The stars don't always align so well. Your fawning over him after one great season looks naive and a little ridiculous.

Let's remember that he's also the coach that lost to UNLV.

I've loved KWhitt since day one. Everybody knows that. I almost got into a fist fight with several guys on Utefans last year after the Vegas game. I told my brother he'd have a 13-0 season soon after the Louisville game. Right now KWhitt could have a losing season next year and I'd be totally in his corner. Have you read my Boylen posts?

However, I never liked Giacoletti, and I thought it was time for McBride to go. Past time.

My approach is I look at the recruiting, I look at the highs and try to ignore the lows, I look at fundamentals, I give them time to succeed.

[ERCougar]

Say what you will about Kyle Whittingham but if you give him 2 weeks to prepare for a game his teams are awesome. A year ago Goatnapper put a huge post about how Bronco was a better coach than Kyle was. Kyle has put that debate to bed.

See that's my point. He hasn't put that debate to bed. Did Gary Crowton prove himself to be the coach of the year after the first 11 games of 2001? You guys lose BJ and you get beaten by BYU and whomever you play in your bowl game. It's suddenly a different season...with the same coach.

Both Kyle and Bronco are good coaches. They both know a lot of football, they know how to manage young men, they both work hard, and they both want to win. The difference between the two this year were some lucky plays and some great player performances.

[SeattleUte]

See that's my point. He hasn't put that debate to bed. Did Gary Crowton prove himself to be the coach of the year after the first 11 games of 2001? You guys lose BJ and you get beaten by BYU and whomever you play in your bowl game. It's suddenly a different season...with the same coach.

Both Kyle and Bronco are good coaches. They both know a lot of football, they know how to manage young men, they both work hard, and they both want to win. The difference between the two this year were some lucky plays and some great player performances.

The difference between what KW did this year and what Crowton or Mendenhall have done is like climing Everest vs. one of the Adirondakcs. I'm not trying to be an ass here. Seriously, it's a foolish comparison. Maybe Mendenhall will rise to that level, but he has a tall tall mountain still to climb.

[ERCougar]

The difference between what KW did this year and what Crowton or Mendenhall have done is like climing Everest vs. one of the Adirondakcs. I'm not trying to be an ass here. Seriously, it's a foolish comparison. Maybe Mendenhall will rise to that level, but he has a tall tall mountain still to climb.

Did you want to dispute the point that had you lost BJ to injury, you lose to both BYU and your bowl game? How is that different from Crowton '01?

[SeattleUte]

Did you want to dispute the point that had you lost BJ to injury, you lose to both BYU and your bowl game? How is that different from Crowton '01?

See Outlier, by Malcolm Gladwell.

I don't dispute it. How many key players did Mendenhall lose? How easy do you think Kyle's achievement is with no bad luck? Hasn't he had his share of bad luck and still wound up on top, four years later?

[ERCougar]

See Outlier, by Malcolm Gladwell.

I don't dispute it. How many key players did Mendenhall lose? How easy do you think Kyle's achievement is with no bad luck? Hasn't he had his share of bad luck and still wound up on top, four years later?

Well...he ended up behind Bronco two years in a row.

Like I said, it's a wash. Some guys (great football players) are gonna dig Kyle, some Bronco. The proportions will be about equal.

[Shaka]

I think KWitt has grown into the job. He has made some mistakes in the past but he has also steadily built his program. He will only get better.

[SeattleUte]

Well...he ended up behind Bronco two years in a row.

Like I said, it's a wash. Some guys (great football players) are gonna dig Kyle, some Bronco. The proportions will be about equal.

You're getting your threads mixed up. Clearly coaches aren't fungible. Until Mendenhall goes 13-0 and soundly beats a team like Alabama in a BCS bowl I'm going to say KW is a lot better coach, and i think the world agrees with me. I always felt KW was a better coach just based on the fact the teams weren't that far apart and Mendenhall had all the stars and good luck, even inheriting a much better stocked team.

[ERCougar]

I think KWitt has grown into the job. He has made some mistakes in the past but he has also steadily built his program. He will only get better.

Possible. But it's also possible that he's benefitted from a very good QB and defensive personnel that won't be around forever and some lucky plays. I'd be really curious to see what BYU 2001 would have been without losing Staley and Doman.

[ERCougar]

You're getting your threads mixed up. Clearly coaches aren't fungible. Until Mendenhall goes 13-0 and soundly beats a team like Alabama in a BCS bowl I'm going to say KW is a lot better coach, and i think the world agrees with me. I always felt KW was a better coach just based on the fact the teams weren't that far apart and Mendenhall had all the stars and good luck, even inheriting a much better stocked team.

And I'm curious how much of the world will agree with you when Utah loses 5 games next year.

If KW matches Bronco for the rest of their careers, then I agree--13-0 and a Sugar Bowl victory swings the scales strongly in KW's favor. Let's see if that happens.

[SeattleUte]

And I'm curious how much of the world will agree with you when Utah loses 5 games next year.

If KW matches Bronco for the rest of their careers, then I agree--13-0 and a Sugar Bowl victory swings the scales strongly in KW's favor. Let's see if that happens.

Most people out there don't even know who won the last two MWC titles, and if you told them they'd forget. People will remember what Utah has done this year forever. I will run across people in all walks of life for years who will talk about this, if they follow football at all.

I also think Mendenhall has had it too easy. I always mistrust early success. I think he's got a natural recruiting base that gives him a foundation on a silver platter. I think he hasn't leveraged that much, and he may be at a glass ceiling. The distance between where he is and KW is is hardly fathomable. Partly because no one has really been where KW is.

[cougjunkie]

You're getting your threads mixed up. Clearly coaches aren't fungible. Until Mendenhall goes 13-0 and soundly beats a team like Alabama in a BCS bowl I'm going to say KW is a lot better coach, and i think the world agrees with me. I always felt KW was a better coach just based on the fact the teams weren't that far apart and Mendenhall had all the stars and good luck, even inheriting a much better stocked team.

While I agree that right now Kyle stock is higher, you are still showing your ignorance by talking about Mendenhall inheriting a better stocked team. Remember Bronco inherited a team coming off of 3 straight losing seasons and a program in shambles. In two years he had them at 11-2. The next season he lost a 5th year senior qb (like BJ), the schools all time leading rusher, 4 of the top 5 receivers from the previous year, and several other key players yet he still went 11-2 again. This past year they only returned 3 defensive starters and went 10-3. Bronco is doing a solid job, but I am not sure if he can get this team over the hump and to a BCS game. That is the difference between the two right now. But Bronco has built a good program.

[ERCougar]

Most people out there don't even know who won the last two MWC titles, and if you told them they'd forget. People will remember what Utah has done this year forever. I will run across people in all walks of life for years who will talk about this, if they follow football at all.

People will remember it because of its uniqueness--non-BCS team beats BCS powerhouse in a BCS game, and that doesn't happen very often. Same reason people remember BSU over OU. Does BSU hold a solid recruiting advantage over everyone because of it? Over the rest of the WAC, sure. Over BYU/Utah/TCU, nope.