Blame the Honor Code Fallacy

[SeattleUte]

BYU recruits better than similarly situated schools, year in and year out. If BYU recruits well, and its retension rate is not bad, how can the Honor Code be holding it back? In fact, I think the Honor Code helps. Given the choice coaches would rather their players not drink and not have sex lives.

Also, it's clear some moms pressure their sons to go to BYU because of the Honor Code.The Honor Code is the centerpiece of BYU's goodwill with a certain type of recruit. As we see with Jake Heaps, that distinctive branding gives BYU an edge even over the big schools with a certain category of prospect. Utah or Boise or TCU has no such monopolistic advantage.

[SCcoug]

Given the choice coaches would rather not suspend their players for drinking and having sex lives.

[MartyFunkhouser]

It goes both ways with the honor code. It hurts the ability to recruit non-LDS players, but it gives them a chance with players like Jake Heaps. BYU wouldn't have had any chance at Jake Heaps if not for the Mormon connection.

I don't know if it is a net positive or a net negative.

[Viking]

BYU recruits better than similarly situated schools, year in and year out. If BYU recruits well, and its retension rate is not bad, how can the Honor Code be holding it back? In fact, I think the Honor Code helps. Given the choice coaches would rather their players not drink and not have sex lives.

Also, it's clear some moms pressure their sons to go to BYU because of the Honor Code.The Honor Code is the centerpiece of BYU's goodwill with a certain type of recruit. As we see with Jake Heaps, that distinctive branding gives BYU an edge even over the big schools with a certain category of prospect. Utah or Boise or TCU has no such monopolistic advantage.

What is BYU's peer group of "similarly situated" schools, in your opinion?

[MartyFunkhouser]

What is BYU's peer group of "similarly situated" schools, in your opinion?

Utah, Boise St, and TCU. You look at the other top non-BcS programs, BYU gets some guys, like Heaps, that would never even listen to these types schools.

[byu71]

BYU recruits better than similarly situated schools, year in and year out. If BYU recruits well, and its retension rate is not bad, how can the Honor Code be holding it back? In fact, I think the Honor Code helps. Given the choice coaches would rather their players not drink and not have sex lives.

Also, it's clear some moms pressure their sons to go to BYU because of the Honor Code.The Honor Code is the centerpiece of BYU's goodwill with a certain type of recruit. As we see with Jake Heaps, that distinctive branding gives BYU an edge even over the big schools with a certain category of prospect. Utah or Boise or TCU has no such monopolistic advantage.

Without the honor code you would still get the LDS kids BYU gets. They don't come to BYU for the honor code, they come because it is the church school. Do you really think LDS football players come because they hear kids get kicked out for drinking or having sex?

Without the honor code, you would get some kids though you wouldn't normally get.

To buy your perspective would to buy the "magic happens" at BYU philosophy.

[Viking]

Utah, Boise St, and TCU. You look at the other top non-BcS programs, BYU gets some guys, like Heaps, that would never even listen to these types schools.

Given the alternatives of the cohort group you identified, would you prefer to be at BYU or any of those schools solely from the perspective of recruiting?

[SeattleUte]

What is BYU's peer group of "similarly situated" schools, in your opinion?

Leading mid-major schools like Utah and TCU. BYU is in a sparsely populated area and in the MWC.

[MarkGrace]

I would much rather recruit without the honor code, no doubt about it. Even LDS kids wants to get hj's and knock back a cold one in college.

[SeattleUte]

Without the honor code you would still get the LDS kids BYU gets. They don't come to BYU for the honor code, they come because it is the church school. Do you really think LDS football players come because they hear kids get kicked out for drinking or having sex?

Without the honor code, you would get some kids though you wouldn't normally get.

To buy your perspective would to buy the "magic happens" at BYU philosophy.

I'm just saying that the Honor Code is a selling point with certain recruits. I think you don't know what it feels like for a mother to send her boy into the gladiatorial ring of college football. Alcohol and girls are big worries. You dilute this aspect of BYU culture and those moms who today are pushing their sons to BYU would just as soon send their boys to Whittingham or Notre Dame.

This has nothing to do with Magic Happens, numbskull. I'm not saying that if BYU abandons the Honor Code God will cease to bless the team with victories.

[SeattleUte]

Given the choice coaches would rather not suspend their players for drinking and having sex lives.

How is BYU's retension rate relative to other schools? I've never heard it's bad.

[SeattleUte]

I would much rather recruit without the honor code, no doubt about it. Even LDS kids wants to get hj's and knock back a cold one in college.

Do you honestly believe that absent the Honor Code BYU would start going toe to toe with top BCS schools? The only reason BYU does as well as it does vis-a-vis the bigs is the Mormon factor. Why should it dilute this distinctive advantage?

[byu71]

This has nothing to do with Magic Happens, numbskull.

Sweet. I wasn't sure the statement would sting.

[Viking]

Do you honestly believe that absent the Honor Code BYU would start going toe to toe with top BCS schools? The only reason BYU does as well as it does vis-a-vis the bigs is the Mormon factor. Why should it dilute this distinctive advantage?

Notre Dame.

[MarkGrace]

Do you honestly believe that absent the Honor Code BYU would start going toe to toe with top BCS schools? The only reason BYU does as well as it does vis-a-vis the bigs is the Mormon factor. Why should it dilute this distinctive advantage?

No, nor did I say that. I just said that I'd much rather recruit without it. On the whole I don't think the honor code system is a positive in any way.