Jake Heaps how refreshing....

[Colly Wolly]

Not a dream, but a difficult place to get into - not because it is academically elite, but because so many LDS kids want to go there. (Before anyone gets upset, I think the profs and education at BYU are just fine. But they are not the reason that most kids want to go there, or that their parents want them to.) The difficulty in getting into BYU has grown proportionately with the growth of the church. It's a matter of more applicants chasing fewer available spots.

I can actually agree with this, though BYU's steady climb up various rankings cannot be denied. Lots of Mormon kids want to go there because it's the LDS Church school, but since they have limited spots, the smarter and more talented kids get in. More and more kids are having to work harder and get better grades to get into BYU. The result is you have alot of smart kids doing very good things and BYU is getting recognition for that.

[jay santos]

You make a good point. I am not wild about BYU being set apart for elite LDS students, but that is what it is becoming. All I am saying is that BYU ought to stand for the highest ideals of our faith, and LDS kids who are given athletic scholarships there ought to be encouraged to serve missions. I don't think BYU administration can say, on the one hand, "Our school is truly special and an example to the world of how higher education really ought to be done;" and then on the other hand, "Our student athletes shouldn't have any more expected of them than student-athletes at other universities." The two positions seem inconsistent to me.

BYU football can only succeed if it succeeds on the football field.
BYU as an institution can only succeed if it educates its students as well or better than peer institutions.
BYU dance can only succeed if they're producing world class dancers.
BYU physics can only succeed if they're sending students to top graduate programs.

etc etc

BYU is not what you think it should be. It's competing in a competitive world.

[Goatnapper'96]

Not a dream, but a difficult place to get into - not because it is academically elite, but because so many LDS kids want to go there. (Before anyone gets upset, I think the profs and education at BYU are just fine. But they are not the reason that most kids want to go there, or that their parents want them to.) The difficulty in getting into BYU has grown proportionately with the growth of the church. It's a matter of more applicants chasing fewer available spots.

In my opinion the capability of a student body is huge aspect of the quality of one's undergraduate experience. Rising tides raise all boats. The Service Academy's are very highly thought of as institutions of both academia and leadership. However, no professors have ever done any research and the majority of them are active duty officers who just completed their masters. It is my opinion that the primary reason they are highly thought of is because of the caliber of their student bodies - and of course the graduates contributions to America. Now the student body at BYU contains a high percentage of dorks unable to walk straight and chew gum simultaneously, but they are still capable academically and whatever reason motivates them to attend does not take away from the capability they possess.

I mean, honestly, is being forced to take some dorky Celestial Marriage "academic" course any less legitimate than the military science classes I had to take?

[Colly Wolly]

I mean, honestly, is being forced to take some dorky Celestial Marriage "academic" course any less legitimate than the military science classes I had to take?

In my humble opinion, YES.

[cougjunkie]

Riley Nelson has an awful arm, he will be a receiver or safety by this time next year.

I really think Heaps is going to start as a true freshman and either Lark or Munns will transfer.

[Eddie]

I think missions are more important than football or any other collegiate sport. Reasons: (1) BYU is the Church school, (2) BYU exists only because of the Church, and (3) every advantage BYU has in the world (fan support, disproportionately high-quality student body, etc.) results exclusively from its Church sponsorship. I think when BYU coaches recruit LDS athletes, they should look for kids who want to go on missions and when a kid is wavering over the decision, BYU athletics ought to encourage the kid to go, or at the very least stay out of the kid's decision.

But that's just me. I have a hunch this will be an unpopular position on this board. So be it. I am prepared to take my licks. Bring it on.

I agree with your initial thoughts in that missions are more important than sports. I do think BYU should recruit quality kids who are committed to the academic standards and honor code. I don't think they should only recruit kids who want to go on a mission. I think the institution can and should encourage missionary service. But ultimately there should be some recognition that kids need to make their own way and own decisions, and serving a mission may not be for everyone.

[Eddie]

Missions are a unique case and I don't think they are for everyone. No one ought to be forced to go. Still, I have a hard time logically with the idea that it is appropriate for BYU to make virtually every other commandment a condition of continued enrollment but requiring a mission goes too far. I can't be a BYU athlete and not attend church, for example.

I'm not personally not in favor of an honor code tied to anything other than academic misconduct. But if you are going to have one that is tied to the commandments and ecclesiastic endorsements which make an athlete (or any student) go to church and be active I don't personally think that requiring them to attempt a mission takes it much further.

I do applaud him for just be straight forward about it though, rather than go through the charade that others have of going out of a while then coming home. I guess that may be important to some for cultural reasons.

This is just silly. Should BYU not recruit kids of other faiths? I doubt you are going to get them to go on a mission. Perhaps only kids who have been to the temple? Is Bronco checking to make sure they've paid a full tithe? Done their hometeaching? Forgiven everyone who has offended them?

Sure, BYU has an honor code and some of the behaviors on the honor code tie into some of the commandments.

But lets not get carried away here.

[Goatnapper'96]

In my humble opinion, YES.

I think you are confusing military science with military history. Tactics and history are a legitimate course of academic pursuit, but getting academic credits for writing a 5 paragraph operations order (OPORD) seemed a little ridiculous to me.

[byu71]

BYU is the churches school, but does it really reflect the church. I think of my kids and my nieces and nephews and just a couple of them graduated from there and it is funny as I mention that I think my family is going to be judged as not "upper echelon" mormons. What is wrong with my kids and nieces and nephews. Is it they don't do well in school, is it they aren't active members, is it they won't cut off their beards or have a tatoo.

BYU is so tough to get in because mormons want their kids there for the environment. It is safe or a heck of a lot safer than other colleges. So you have a demand that overwhelms the ability to provide places for the demand. Thus you can have academic standards to get in that rival some of the truly great colleges, but not for the same reason those colleges are hard to get in.

I am sorry, but I prefer to have my church represented by the football team and their make up rather than the general student body. I am not saying they aren't great kids, but they don't really represent the church, do they. The church doesn't have an honor code, how does BYU's honor code represent the church.

[mUUser]

In my opinion the capability of a student body is huge aspect of the quality of one's undergraduate experience.

One thing I've noticed is that BYU does a tremendous job at sending their best & brightest into world-class graduate professional programs in the country (business, law, medicine), but then the pool gets shallow pretty quick (like most other schools).

Honestly, outside the immediate region and the odd LDS subculture that appareantly drools over thoughts of their children attending BYU -- I just don't see what's so elite about it. It certainly doesn't carry an elite name across the country. The depth & breadth of exceptional Army candidates is 100X that of BYU.

Having said that -- it's my hope that BYU (& Utah amongst others) will be one of the considerations for my kids, assuming Stanford doesn't work out, of course.

[Flattop]

Am I remembering incorrectly that a few weeks ago we were discussing Bronco's alledged implied criticism of a player choosing Notre Dame over BYU because he didn't want to serve a mission?

Now we're talking about Heap's saying he won't go on a mission as a great thing. Hmm.

If Heaps, or anyone else, doesn't want to go on a mission, then they shouldn't go. There's nothing worse than a missionary who is out in the field for the wrong reasons. The only right reason, IMO, is because you want to serve a mission.

I didn't go because I had to, or believed I had to; I went because I wanted to. But there were too many in my mission who didn't want to be there, and they just wasted two years and their parents money -- or someone elses's.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

It's disappointing that Heaps won't be following Hall's example of being an RM Qb.

[LA Ute]

If Jake Heaps does not serve a mission does that indicate that BYU does not stand for those ideals? If a Stake President from Dillon, MT is caught in Boise, ID trying to pick up on a 12 year old girl he thought he met over the internet does it indicate that the LDS Church no longer stands for the ideals it claims to support?

I don't know who encourages Jake to do what, but I don't think the fact that he doesn't want to serve is proof that he is discouraged, or not encouraged enough, to serve a mission from those at BYU who have recruited him.

Perhaps you believe that BYU should stop recruiting LDS kids who make it clear that a mission is not in their plans during the recruiting process?

As a fan, I think this is a good development for the football team.

I think that above all I am responding to those posting here who seem to be applauding his apparent lack of interest in serving a mission. Would they give the same "attaboy" to a young man in their ward who decided not to go? I doubt it. It's just a difference of opinion. I am not just talking about BYU athletes, BTW. I was also happy when Britton Johnsen decided to serve. (That is a blasphemous belief in SU's universe.) I'm just big on missions.

[byu71]

I think that above all I am responding to those posting here who seem to be applauding his apparent lack of interest in serving a mission. Would they give the same "attaboy" to a young man in their ward who decided not to go? I doubt it. It's just a difference of opinion. I am not just talking about BYU athletes, BTW. I was also happy when Britton Johnsen decided to serve. (That is a blasphemous belief in SU's universe.) I'm just big on missions.

If someone sought out my opinion, unless there were unusual circumstances, I would encourage them to go.

In Jake's case he isn't seeking out my advice. To me he is a kid who has talked to his parents, his ecclesiastical leaders and decided not to go. I am not going to mourn that decision. He is a kid that for now has decided not to go and I am elated not that he made the decision, but that he is a football player that will be playing 4 straight years at BYU. I am not part of his mission decision equation.

Just as a side note, if you know what you know now, would you have strongly advised Steve Young to go on a mission. I know what we should say as the party line, but in all reality, what would you knowing what you know now have advised him to do.

[Goatnapper'96]

I think that above all I am responding to those posting here who seem to be applauding his apparent lack of interest in serving a mission. Would they give the same "attaboy" to a young man in their ward who decided not to go? I doubt it. It's just a difference of opinion. I am not just talking about BYU athletes, BTW. I was also happy when Britton Johnsen decided to serve. (That is a blasphemous belief in SU's universe.) I'm just big on missions.

I think that those here that are believers in the mission of the Church would say that if Jake were to ask them personally they would recomend he go. I think that same group applauded Britton, Mark Bigelow and even Benji Olsen when those chose to go. It is admirable and IMHO they will never regret serving - despite what it did to their athletic careers. As a fan I will not apologize for being happy that a kid is choosing to avoid that spiritually improving but athletically destroying event.