Fire Ty

[Eddie]

Look, I don't have my pulse on the high school recruiting game like I used to. However, I still hear stuff. I'll tell you right now that for a lot of those kids playing for an independent BYU doesn't thrill a lot of potential recruits. Kids want the ability to play for something other than just exposure. Couple this with Utah's success as a P5 and USU's resurgence and you have a real problem.

Hey - I get that recruitment has been declining. I tend to agree with 'Napper's assessment.

And I get that Utah (and any P5, really) has some appeal. I also get that if USU is playing better than BYU there will be kids - especially local Utah kids - who want to go there.

I'm just saying that, all things being equal, I don't understand the draw of the MWC.

If BYU joins the MWC, that won't narrow the gap with Utah. Kids who are interested in a P5 conference aren't going to decide to go to BYU because they are in the MWC. I can't think of any way that joining the MWC helps BYU in recruiting against Utah and the PAC12. It just doesn't.

In the past - when BYU was in the MWC - all I heard over and over again is that when the coaches were recruiting, they weren't selling the MWC games to recruits. They were talking about the OOC games. They were talking about games against P5 schools - and with the good recruits from out of state they were hopefully talking about games near the recruits home.

You can't tell me that it's easier to sell a recruit on annual games with Wyoming, UNM, CSU, SDSU, Fresno St., USU, etc than to talk about an exciting schedule that includes: Arizona, Cal, Washington, Wisconsin, Tennessee, USC, Michigan St., ASU, Minnesota, Missouri, etc. (and all on the schedule over the next 3 years)

I suppose about the ONLY thing I can think of where being in the MWC might help is if you're able to tell kids that you've won the conference championship 8 of the last 10 years or something. I suppose that might be nice. But I don't think it outweighs a schedule of playing some pretty cool teams in pretty cool places. I just don't. It doesn't make sense to me.

But I'm not those kids, and admit I don't know how they think. Which is why I simply asked the question - which recruits has BYU lost but would have signed if they had been in the MWC (with all other variables remaining the same.)

[Goatnapper'96]

Hey - I get that recruitment has been declining. I tend to agree with 'Napper's assessment.

And I get that Utah (and any P5, really) has some appeal. I also get that if USU is playing better than BYU there will be kids - especially local Utah kids - who want to go there.

I'm just saying that, all things being equal, I don't understand the draw of the MWC.

If BYU joins the MWC, that won't narrow the gap with Utah. Kids who are interested in a P5 conference aren't going to decide to go to BYU because they are in the MWC. I can't think of any way that joining the MWC helps BYU in recruiting against Utah and the PAC12. It just doesn't.

In the past - when BYU was in the MWC - all I heard over and over again is that when the coaches were recruiting, they weren't selling the MWC games to recruits. They were talking about the OOC games. They were talking about games against P5 schools - and with the good recruits from out of state they were hopefully talking about games near the recruits home.

You can't tell me that it's easier to sell a recruit on annual games with Wyoming, UNM, CSU, SDSU, Fresno St., USU, etc than to talk about an exciting schedule that includes: Arizona, Cal, Washington, Wisconsin, Tennessee, USC, Michigan St., ASU, Minnesota, Missouri, etc. (and all on the schedule over the next 3 years)

I suppose about the ONLY thing I can think of where being in the MWC might help is if you're able to tell kids that you've won the conference championship 8 of the last 10 years or something. I suppose that might be nice. But I don't think it outweighs a schedule of playing some pretty cool teams in pretty cool places. I just don't. It doesn't make sense to me.

But I'm not those kids, and admit I don't know how they think. Which is why I simply asked the question - which recruits has BYU lost but would have signed if they had been in the MWC (with all other variables remaining the same.)

I don't think the conference affiliation will be the draw, but I think that conference affiliation will put BYU back into a situation where they will have a more balanced schedule. With a conference taking up 8 weeks of the year BYU will only have time to play 2-3 BCS level programs. If one or two of those have a down year in a year where BYU has a good team for them then BYU might be back in the top 25 with 10 wins and a win or two over a BCS program. Being able to do that once every five years will help recruiting. Those believing a return to a conference are not doing so for the belief that kids are dying to wear a jersey with AAC or MWC on the right clavicle as much as that is where BYU belongs and the current arrangement has BYU playing 4-5 games every year against teams that should beat BYU 80% of the time and with no way of evaluating ourselves against those other programs with similar resources. It will help the program win more frequently and provide more stability. I am in favor of it.

[Shaka]

I agree the problems with recruiting are multi-faceted. Independence is but one of the challenges. However, it's a significant challenge.

You can sell recruits on a conference schedule supplemented by some decent P5 teams in the mix. This was our bread and butter for years. Playing an outlandish preseason schedule followed by a bunch of duds without a conference title on the line isn't great recipe for recruiting.

[Eddie]

I agree the problems with recruiting are multi-faceted. Independence is but one of the challenges. However, it's a significant challenge.

You can sell recruits on a conference schedule supplemented by some decent P5 teams in the mix. This was our bread and butter for years. Playing an outlandish preseason schedule followed by a bunch of duds without a conference title on the line isn't great recipe for recruiting.

I agree that the more difficult early schedule has hurt BYU. They want to mimic a P5 schedule (in some ways) but don't have the recruits and depth to do it. From that respect - going back to the MWC does provide a more balanced schedule as far as increasing the chances of higher win totals.

But if BYU was still winning 10 games a season, I don't know how big of a deal that would be.

[Shaka]

I agree that the more difficult early schedule has hurt BYU. They want to mimic a P5 schedule (in some ways) but don't have the recruits and depth to do it. From that respect - going back to the MWC does provide a more balanced schedule as far as increasing the chances of higher win totals.

But if BYU was still winning 10 games a season, I don't know how big of a deal that would be.

If you win ten or eleven and get a NY6 bowl game then you might have something.

[jay santos]

I have a hard time even verbalizing the phrase fire Ty, just because he's a BYU hero and super nice guy. But I have essentially zero confidence he is now or ever will be an above average offensive coordinator. This is a critical time period for BYU sports and it's critical we have the very best coaching possible, so I'm fine with firing Ty.

[BigFatMeanie]

I don't think the conference affiliation will be the draw, but I think that conference affiliation will put BYU back into a situation where they will have a more balanced schedule. With a conference taking up 8 weeks of the year BYU will only have time to play 2-3 BCS level programs. If one or two of those have a down year in a year where BYU has a good team for them then BYU might be back in the top 25 with 10 wins and a win or two over a BCS program. Being able to do that once every five years will help recruiting. Those believing a return to a conference are not doing so for the belief that kids are dying to wear a jersey with AAC or MWC on the right clavicle as much as that is where BYU belongs and the current arrangement has BYU playing 4-5 games every year against teams that should beat BYU 80% of the time and with no way of evaluating ourselves against those other programs with similar resources. It will help the program win more frequently and provide more stability. I am in favor of it.

???

BYU doesn't have to schedule 5-6 BCS level programs a year regardless of whether they are in or out of a conference. BYU could only play 2-3 BCS level programs right now as an independent if they wanted to. Although joining a conference will certainly water down the schedule, joining a conference is not required in order to water down the schedule.

Joining the MWC or the AAC is NOT the solution to BYU's current football woes. Usually you are a smart guy but in this respect you are acting like a string pulling pansy.

[Goatnapper'96]

???

BYU doesn't have to schedule 5-6 BCS level programs a year regardless of whether they are in or out of a conference. BYU could only play 2-3 BCS level programs right now as an independent if they wanted to. Although joining a conference will certainly water down the schedule, joining a conference is not required in order to water down the schedule.

Joining the MWC or the AAC is NOT the solution to BYU's current football woes. Usually you are a smart guy but in this respect you are acting like a string pulling pansy.

Joining a conference is a way of retreating without admitting they are retreating - "it isn't our fault we thought it better to have a chance to compete for conference championships and a casualty of that was the chance to play 4-5 BCS programs every year." But in essence you are correct.

[BigFatMeanie]

I agree the problems with recruiting are multi-faceted. Independence is but one of the challenges. However, it's a significant challenge.

You can sell recruits on a conference schedule supplemented by some decent P5 teams in the mix. This was our bread and butter for years. Playing an outlandish preseason schedule followed by a bunch of duds without a conference title on the line isn't great recipe for recruiting.

You can sell recruits on an independent schedule of the types of teams you would be playing in a conference, supplemented by some decent P5 teams in the mix. Independence is not forcing BYU to play an an outlandish preseason schedule.

BYU had 10, 8, 8, 8, 9, and 9 win seasons as an independent and was essentially on the top list of next teams to join a P5 conference in expansion. Now they have a hugely crappy year and somehow independence is undesirable and joining the MWC or AAC will solve BYU's woes?

People simply aren't being rational here. The single biggest variable so far in BYU's stunningly horrible season is coaching. Does anyone honestly think Bronco/Anae would have been 1-7 at this point in the season?

[Flystripper]

Being in the MWC raises the floor without sacrificing the ceiling. It will work itself out when we go to renew our contract with ESPN and we don't get anywhere near enough to make the negatives of Indy worth it. Our downward trajectory coupled with the bubble having popped with respect to network money being thrown around will drive push us back to a conference.

[Jeff Lebowski]

You can sell recruits on an independent schedule of the types of teams you would be playing in a conference, supplemented by some decent P5 teams in the mix. Independence is not forcing BYU to play an an outlandish preseason schedule.

BYU had 10, 8, 8, 8, 9, and 9 win seasons as an independent and was essentially on the top list of next teams to join a P5 conference in expansion. Now they have a hugely crappy year and somehow independence is undesirable and joining the MWC or AAC will solve BYU's woes?

People simply aren't being rational here. The single biggest variable so far in BYU's stunningly horrible season is coaching. Does anyone honestly think Bronco/Anae would have been 1-7 at this point in the season?

Preach it, brother!

[Flystripper]

If you win ten or eleven and get a NY6 bowl game then you might have something.

As an Independent BYU has no NY6 bowl opportunities. You only get that from being in a conference. Maybe that is what you were saying and I misunderstood.

[Flystripper]

You can sell recruits on an independent schedule of the types of teams you would be playing in a conference, supplemented by some decent P5 teams in the mix. Independence is not forcing BYU to play an an outlandish preseason schedule.

BYU had 10, 8, 8, 8, 9, and 9 win seasons as an independent and was essentially on the top list of next teams to join a P5 conference in expansion. Now they have a hugely crappy year and somehow independence is undesirable and joining the MWC or AAC will solve BYU's woes?

People simply aren't being rational here. The single biggest variable so far in BYU's stunningly horrible season is coaching. Does anyone honestly think Bronco/Anae would have been 1-7 at this point in the season?

that is a very good point. It does not solve the problem that there are not many (any) great choices for BYU football coaches.

[Goatnapper'96]

that is a very good point. It does not solve the problem that there are not many (any) great choices for BYU football coaches.

Is Anae the most likely next HC?

[Flystripper]

Is Anae the most likely next HC?

Maybe. He should have been the choice from the beginning. We would have kept the offensive continuity. Man, what I wouldn't give to have Anae in charge of the offense.