Top 5 BYU QBs

[Green Monstah]

A recent dustup on twitter between Brady Poppinga and Derik Stevenson made me realize just how difficult it is to name top-5 all-time BYU players by position. CS seems like a great place to hash it out. No pre-determined standards or criteria. Just tell us who is best and why.

Due to location and lack of cable/satellite, John Beck was the first QB I was able to watch regularly, so take the following list with a grain of salt.

1. Ty Detmer: no matter what Young and McMahon did during their time at BYU, they didn't win the Heisman.
2. Steve Young: he came damn close to winning the Heisman and got "paid" pretty well with the LA Express (sort of). I was conflicted on McMahon and Young, and decided that post-college success would be the tie breaker (even though that doesn't make much sense given Detmer gets my #1 pick for what he did in college).
3. Jim McMahon: it's hard to argue with the broken NCAA records and Miracle Bowl victory.
4. Robbie Boscoe: I'd really like to give this to Marc Wilson or Virgil Carter or someone else, but it's tough to argue with being drafted and winning a National Championship (including a one-legged bowl victory).
5. Max Hall. I know. Sark, Wilson, Nielsen, or maybe even Beck are more deserving. But you can't simply disregard the QB with the most wins in program history.

[Sizzle]

A recent dustup on twitter between Brady Poppinga and Derik Stevenson made me realize just how difficult it is to name top-5 all-time BYU players by position. CS seems like a great place to hash it out. No pre-determined standards or criteria. Just tell us who is best and why.

Due to location and lack of cable/satellite, John Beck was the first QB I was able to watch regularly, so take the following list with a grain of salt.

1. Ty Detmer: no matter what Young and McMahon did during their time at BYU, they didn't win the Heisman.
2. Steve Young: he came damn close to winning the Heisman and got "paid" pretty well with the LA Express (sort of). I was conflicted on McMahon and Young, and decided that post-college success would be the tie breaker (even though that doesn't make much sense given Detmer gets my #1 pick for what he did in college).
3. Jim McMahon: it's hard to argue with the broken NCAA records and Miracle Bowl victory.
4. Robbie Boscoe: I'd really like to give this to Marc Wilson or Virgil Carter or someone else, but it's tough to argue with being drafted and winning a National Championship (including a one-legged bowl victory).
5. Max Hall. I know. Sark, Wilson, Nielsen, or maybe even Beck are more deserving. But you can't simply disregard the QB with the most wins in program history.

For me, I think you got the right guys, just the wrong order. I'd rank them as follows:

1) McMahon -- He was revolutionary as a QB and was the greatest competitor at QB to ever play at BYU. I think he finished 3rd in the Heisman voting his senior year. Sure, he's 4th All-Time in passing yards, but he also played two years behind a guy who was a first round draft pick in Marc Wilson. If I had to pick a BYU QB to win one game, McMahon would be my guy, no questions asked (based on time at BYU).
2) Detmer -- Hard to rank the Heisman winner and leader in yards passing second, but that's how good McMahon was. For most schools, Detmer would be 1.
3) Young -- Young easily had the most success post-BYU and I think his time at BYU gets romanticized a bit because of that. But being a Heisman runner up, and being a great dual-threat I think gives him the nod.
4) Bosco gets the nod because of the Natty. Also, his career was shortchanged because of injuries -- he could've done more at the next level (and even as a senior) but injuries really held him back.
5) This is tough and I think Max Hall narrowly edges out the guys you listed because of consistency. Hall was good, a fiery leader and the winningest QB at BYU over three years.
6) Marc Wilson -- He was good enough to start ahead of the #1 guy on this list and I think is underrated by many Cougar fans. I feel like he's sort of the "forgotten QB" of BYU.
7) John Beck -- Beck's senior year after the TCU game was like Neo in the Matrix when things click -- like the "I know Kung Fu" line, John Beck basically said "I can play QB" and was absolutely lights out.
8) Gifford Nielsen -- Limited a bit by injuries, but had success at the next level too.
9) Sark - 95 was so-so. 96 was special.
10) Gary Sheide -- Feel like it needs to be the guy who really started it all.

Honorable Mentions:
Taysom Hill
Brandon Doman
Virgil Carter
John Walsh
Kevin Feterik

[jay santos]

1-2-3 has to be McMahon, Young, Detmer, but if you ignore their pro career, it's so difficult to rank them. I'll go.

1. Detmer
2. McMahon
3. Young

4. Bosco
5. Sarkisian

In the running at #5 are Wilson, Nielsen, Sark, Doman, Hall, Beck. You could make argument for any of them, but I go with Sark because he had the best team of any of those QB's and IIRC his passing efficiency that senior year was a record at the time.

[creekster]

For me, I think you got the right guys, just the wrong order. I'd rank them as follows:

1) McMahon -- He was revolutionary as a QB and was the greatest competitor at QB to ever play at BYU. I think he finished 3rd in the Heisman voting his senior year. Sure, he's 4th All-Time in passing yards, but he also played two years behind a guy who was a first round draft pick in Marc Wilson. If I had to pick a BYU QB to win one game, McMahon would be my guy, no questions asked (based on time at BYU).
2) Detmer -- Hard to rank the Heisman winner and leader in yards passing second, but that's how good McMahon was. For most schools, Detmer would be 1.
3) Young -- Young easily had the most success post-BYU and I think his time at BYU gets romanticized a bit because of that. But being a Heisman runner up, and being a great dual-threat I think gives him the nod.
4) Bosco gets the nod because of the Natty. Also, his career was shortchanged because of injuries -- he could've done more at the next level (and even as a senior) but injuries really held him back.
5) This is tough and I think Max Hall narrowly edges out the guys you listed because of consistency. Hall was good, a fiery leader and the winningest QB at BYU over three years.
6) Marc Wilson -- He was good enough to start ahead of the #1 guy on this list and I think is underrated by many Cougar fans. I feel like he's sort of the "forgotten QB" of BYU.
7) John Beck -- Beck's senior year after the TCU game was like Neo in the Matrix when things click -- like the "I know Kung Fu" line, John Beck basically said "I can play QB" and was absolutely lights out.
8) Gifford Nielsen -- Limited a bit by injuries, but had success at the next level too.
9) Sark - 95 was so-so. 96 was special.
10) Gary Sheide -- Feel like it needs to be the guy who really started it all.

Honorable Mentions:
Taysom Hill
Brandon Doman
Virgil Carter
John Walsh
Kevin Feterik

I agree with 1-4 on your list and largely for the reasons you stated but I would put Wilson ahead of Hall. I watched the season when McMahon and Wilson shared time and saw a lot of Wilson''s games in person. I know there were a lot of reasons for his unique success, but when he was playing at BYU he was amazing. In hindsight, I agree that Jimbo is the Mc-Man, and even in the day, sitting in the stands, McMahon was the guy we wanted to play. But Wilson played so well and made it look so effortless. I really think many of the old WAC schools that hate BYU to this day do so in no small part due to a game where Wilson dropped TD bomb after TD Bomb and made them feel completely incompetent.

Here's to Mangum playing his way into this conversation.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I agree with 1-4 on your list and largely for the reasons you stated but I would put Wilson ahead of Hall. I watched the season when McMahon and Wilson shared time and saw a lot of Wilson''s games in person. I know there were a lot of reasons for his unique success, but when he was playing at BYU he was amazing. In hindsight, I agree that Jimbo is the Mc-Man, and even in the day, sitting in the stands, McMahon was the guy we wanted to play. But Wilson played so well and made it look so effortless. I really think many of the old WAC schools that hate BYU to this day do so in no small part due to a game where Wilson dropped TD bomb after TD Bomb and made them feel completely incompetent.

Here's to Mangum playing his way into this conversation.

I still remember that game against SDSU in 1979 that was broadcast nationally on ABC. The first THREE passes Wilson threw all went for TDs.

[Pelado]

1) McMahon - Goatnapper used enough expletives to convince me that Jimmy Mac belongs on top, 47 TD in 1980 alone
2) Detmer - Did he ever throw for less than 300 in a game? Heisman winner, all-time passing leader
3) Young - Dual-threat that I was too young to watch live, Heisman runner-up (46% for Rozier, 30% for Young)
4) Wilson - BYU's first undefeated regular season, averaged over 40 points per game, good enough to keep #1 McMahon on the bench
5) Bosco - First QB I remember watching, national championship,

My family were not huge sports fans, and growing up outside the Wasatch front, we didn't get a lot of the games - especially since we didn't usually have cable. My viewing of most of the games required my dad taking us to the stake center.

In looking over the Heisman voting, the BYU QB run is a bit crazy. For the 18 seasons between 1974 and 1991, BYU had 7 different QB's receiving Heisman votes in 11 different seasons:

Year - QB (Rank)
1974 - Sheide (8)
1976 - Nielsen (6)
1979 - Wilson (3)
1980 - McMahon (5)
1981 - McMahon (3)
1983 - Young (2)
1984 - Bosco (3)
1985 - Bosco (3)
1989 - Detmer (9)
1990 - Detmer (1)
1990 - Detmer (3)

[Sizzle]

1-2-3 has to be McMahon, Young, Detmer, but if you ignore their pro career, it's so difficult to rank them. I'll go.

1. Detmer
2. McMahon
3. Young

4. Bosco
5. Sarkisian

In the running at #5 are Wilson, Nielsen, Sark, Doman, Hall, Beck. You could make argument for any of them, but I go with Sark because he had the best team of any of those QB's and IIRC his passing efficiency that senior year was a record at the time.

The issue I have with Sark is 95 was such an average season -- 7-4, no bowl game. 96 was absolutely special, no question. But so much of that was because it was arguably the best defense BYU had ever had. BYU also had a great running game in 96 with McKenzie, Jenkins and Marky Mark. Add in two TEs who played in the NFL and I think Sark is the beneficiary of a great team, more than the team benefitting Sark.

Max Hall as a starter won 11, 10 and 11 games in a season when BYU played in arguably the toughest conference -- Utah and TCU were natinoally good during those seasons. Yes, Max had great talent around him, but he was a leader, he was vocal and there were games where he put BYU on his back and willed them to a win (Oklahoma, Utah in 2007 and 2009, for example) and who can forget "Classless"? If I needed a guy to win me a game, which is what I usually use as a tiebreaker in these type of discussions, I'd take Max Hall over Sark.

If you use Passing Efficiency as the benchmark, McMahon had the greatest BYU season in 1980 (176.87). Max Hall has the 7th and 9th best seasons as a starter. Sark's is 3rd best in history, FWIW.

[Green Monstah]

For me, I think you got the right guys, just the wrong order. I'd rank them as follows:

6) Marc Wilson -- He was good enough to start ahead of the #1 guy on this list and I think is underrated by many Cougar fans. I feel like he's sort of the "forgotten QB" of BYU.

I think you're right re: Wilson. During media days, I was bummed he couldn't make the trip, but you could tell that having his # retired was something he felt he'd deserved for a while. I have no recollection of his college days, but I do seem to remember his horrific Patriots team in the late 80s-early 90s. Even still, he arguably had a better pro career than Detmer (which isn't really saying much).

[Topper]

The issue I have with Sark is 95 was such an average season -- 7-4, no bowl game. 96 was absolutely special, no question. But so much of that was because it was arguably the best defense BYU had ever had. BYU also had a great running game in 96 with McKenzie, Jenkins and Marky Mark. Add in two TEs who played in the NFL and I think Sark is the beneficiary of a great team, more than the team benefitting Sark.

Max Hall as a starter won 11, 10 and 11 games in a season when BYU played in arguably the toughest conference -- Utah and TCU were natinoally good during those seasons. Yes, Max had great talent around him, but he was a leader, he was vocal and there were games where he put BYU on his back and willed them to a win (Oklahoma, Utah in 2007 and 2009, for example) and who can forget "Classless"? If I needed a guy to win me a game, which is what I usually use as a tiebreaker in these type of discussions, I'd take Max Hall over Sark.

If you use Passing Efficiency as the benchmark, McMahon had the greatest BYU season in 1980 (176.87). Max Hall has the 7th and 9th best seasons as a starter. Sark's is 3rd best in history, FWIW.

All of the reasons are valid

But

Jimmy Mac is number 1
Ty is number 2 for the Heisman
Young is number 3
Bosco is number 4
Sark is number 5
Beck is number 6
Wilson is number 7 though it would be also correct to jump him to number 5
Hall is number 8
Giff is number 9

and everybody else is really good to average. I might rank Doman at 10. I never saw Virgil Carter to know where to rank him.

[Moliere]

1. Feterik
2. Covey
3. Olson
4. Shoemaker
5. Pendleton

Honorable mention
6. Bower (he may never have played, but he carried Max Hall on his shoulders)
7. Engemann
8. Jackson Brown (I saw what I think was his only game ever )
9. Abs

[Jeff Lebowski]

1. Feterik
2. Covey
3. Olson
4. Shoemaker
5. Pendleton

Honorable mention
6. Bower (he may never have played, but he carried Max Hall on his shoulders)
7. Engemann
8. Jackson Brown (I saw what I think was his only game ever )
9. Abs

I remember that game. Greg Wrubell was ready with a golden line: "And with the Cougars running on empty, BYU turns to Jackson Brown at QB."

[Green Monstah]

1. Feterik
2. Covey
3. Olson
4. Shoemaker
5. Pendleton

Honorable mention
6. Bower (he may never have played, but he carried Max Hall on his shoulders)
7. Engemann
8. Jackson Brown (I saw what I think was his only game ever )
9. Abs

How does Heaps not make this list? Getting passed over for Nelson again.

[Moliere]

I remember that game. Greg Wrubell was ready with a golden line: "And with the Cougars running on empty, BYU turns to Jackson Brown at QB."

One of the coldest games I remember as well. At least I also saw the 1996 BYU vs USU basketball game.

On a serious note, I'd go:

1. McMahon
2. Detmer
3. Young
4. Wilson
5. Beck (I have a soft spot for Beck given what he went through with injuries and Crowton...and his senior season was one of my favorites as he plowed through the MWC)

[Bo Diddley]

1. McMahon
2. Detmer
3. Young
4. Bosco
5. Wilson

[falafel]

One of the coldest games I remember as well. At least I also saw the 1996 BYU vs USU basketball game.

On a serious note, I'd go:

1. McMahon
2. Detmer
3. Young
4. Wilson
5. Beck (I have a soft spot for Beck given what he went through with injuries and Crowton...and his senior season was one of my favorites as he plowed through the MWC)

This is probably my list as well. I know that Hall played a very high level for 3 straight years, but Beck's senior season was my favorite. Probably not a rational basis for ranking him above Max, but I was always a little annoyed at Max's inability to throw the long ball consistently. John Beck had a cannon.