BYU recruiting: adequate

[Topper]

It is probably true the institution recruits the kids more than an individual coach. Kids go to Alabama, USC, ND or UT, because the impression of the institution has and the number of times a kid is shown on national tv.

BYU recruits the LDS as its mainstay. There have been times when football or basketball coaches have done a good job, poor job and average job recruiting athletes for BYU.

My impression of Bronco is that he is overall an adequate, average recruiter for BYU. He can put on the straight-laced image many MOs want for their children, so he has credibility with parents. This works for LDS and religiously minded non-LDS.

I haven't seen any statistics to determine if he has hit or miss with recruits more than other programs. His lack of production in producing pro athletes indicates to me he's not very good at finding diamonds in the rough. He seems to sign his share of the best LDS, but doesn't do a great job of attracting top notch non-LDS. Not many coaches would.

Rose for basketball also fits that description. He has a nice clean image. He signs a lot of Utah County kids. He doesn't succeed in signing too many highly rated non-LDS. One would think he could in basketball, but it hasn't happened.

There are very few dynamic recruiters in terms of persuading great recruits to sign for a school such as BYU. BYU must however, do a better job of identifying under the radar recruits and develop these players to their fullest potential, as Boise State has done in the past. Bronco's staff has failed in terms of identifying quality linemen and recently tight ends.

BYU has always had trouble identifying quality big men. Mark Pope seems like a quality coach, but we also need a coach to improve the defense, as Shroyer once did. Both squads would improve quite a bit with just one dynamic recruiter or somebody who can identify diamonds in the rough.

The football team doesn't seem to have that and the basketball team needs somebody with contacts to at least one hotbed of basketball talent.

[MarkGrace]

I'm interested in something Ogletree said. On his blog he mentioned that he thinks BYU spends too much time recruiting the state of Utah relative to the return in terms of actual contribution on the football team. He also said that he thinks the coaches should spend more time in others states targeting Christian kids and not just Mormons. He believes there are plenty of kids from Texas and other states in the South that come from Christian backgrounds and the HC wouldn't be that big a transition. It's an interesting thought, though I wonder if Southern Christians just have too much disdain for Mormonism for this to be successful.

[kccougar]

I'm interested in something Ogletree said. On his blog he mentioned that he thinks BYU spends too much time recruiting the state of Utah relative to the return in terms of actual contribution on the football team. He also said that he thinks the coaches should spend more time in others states targeting Christian kids and not just Mormons. He believes there are plenty of kids from Texas and other states in the South that come from Christian backgrounds and the HC wouldn't be that big a transition. It's an interesting thought, though I wonder if Southern Christians just have too much disdain for Mormonism for this to be successful.

While there could certainly be some validity to that theory, it also smacks as typical Utah disdain from a Texas student at BYU.

[MarkGrace]

While there could certainly be some validity to that theory, it also smacks as typical Utah disdain from a Texas student at BYU.

Maybe, but he provided a cursory look at the players on the team and where they were from and I could see what he was getting at. If you shuffle through the major contributors to the program over the last 9-10 years, how many are from Utah? I could see where one would think the amount of time spent on recruiting the state is disproportionate with contributions on the field.

[Jacob]

I'm interested in something Ogletree said. On his blog he mentioned that he thinks BYU spends too much time recruiting the state of Utah relative to the return in terms of actual contribution on the football team. He also said that he thinks the coaches should spend more time in others states targeting Christian kids and not just Mormons. He believes there are plenty of kids from Texas and other states in the South that come from Christian backgrounds and the HC wouldn't be that big a transition. It's an interesting thought, though I wonder if Southern Christians just have too much disdain for Mormonism for this to be successful.

The success rate for a player at about any college is greater for those whose homes are closer to the college. The further from home, the more likely the kid is to not contribute. I suspect this rule is several magnitude greater at BYU, but replace location from home with commitment to LDS church. It would be nice to pickup a few talented guys we don't normally get, but BYU needs to focus primarily on Utah and LDS or results will be worse, IMO.

[cougjunkie]

I'm interested in something Ogletree said. On his blog he mentioned that he thinks BYU spends too much time recruiting the state of Utah relative to the return in terms of actual contribution on the football team. He also said that he thinks the coaches should spend more time in others states targeting Christian kids and not just Mormons. He believes there are plenty of kids from Texas and other states in the South that come from Christian backgrounds and the HC wouldn't be that big a transition. It's an interesting thought, though I wonder if Southern Christians just have too much disdain for Mormonism for this to be successful.

Utah has no trouble with BYU and 11 of their 17 commits this year are from the state of Utah.

[Topper]

Is the TCU transfer eligible for next year? Is he an Oline or Dline prospect?

KIDS who are away from home are more likely to be homesick, especially if they are not playing a lot or starting. BYU can throw numbers of Utah kids and hit or miss.

With kids from other states, we don't have the volume to determine our success ratio.

[MarkGrace]

Is the TCU transfer eligible for next year? Is he an Oline or Dline prospect?

Yes and o-line.

[MarkGrace]

Utah has no trouble with BYU and 11 of their 17 commits this year are from the state of Utah.

I don't follow Utah enough to know which players become contributors (I could probably name 3-4 players max). I also don't think it has anything to do with the results seen at BYU in terms of where our contributors come from.

[TripletDaddy]

Maybe, but he provided a cursory look at the players on the team and where they were from and I could see what he was getting at. If you shuffle through the major contributors to the program over the last 9-10 years, how many are from Utah? I could see where one would think the amount of time spent on recruiting the state is disproportionate with contributions on the field.

I was just having this discussion a week or so ago. If you make a list of the very top Utah recruits that have made an impact at other BCS schools, the list is minimal. Ngata, Havili, and there are others, of course, but not that many. I say the very top because the absolute best kids usually wind up going elsewhere to bigger programs.

I would agree with you and tree that the time spent convincing local kids doesnt seem to be producing great results for BYU. If I were Bronco I would be spending more time in California, Texas, and the South.

[Topper]

I don't follow Utah enough to know which players become contributors (I could probably name 3-4 players max). I also don't think it has anything to do with the results seen at BYU in terms of where our contributors come from.

Bronco's model, or apparent model of focusing upon LDS is sound for BYU. Whether he recruits them actively enough, whether he focuses upon Utah kids is difficult to judge from outside the program. What is clear is BYU's success depends heavily upon quality lines, good linebackers and tight ends.

BYU's base supplies some quality in those positions. BYU needs additions from outside its base in terms of skill players and defensive backs. BYU will never sign enough adequate skill players from Utah. There are not enough to go around in the state of Utah.

[cougjunkie]

Let's go back the last 10 years and see how many contributors on the team were from Utah:

2003: Top 3 RBs: Rey Braithwaite, Fui and Fahu. 2 of the top 3 backs from Utah)
Top 4 WRs: Toby Christensen, Chris Hale, Rod Wilkerson, Daniel Coats (all from the state of Utah)
QBs: Berry, Beck, Mortensen and Jackson Brown all played. (Brown from Utah)
O-line: 3 of 5 starters were from Utah (Jake Kuresa, Lance Reynolds, Scott Young)
Defense: Mike Tanner- 74 tackles, Chad Barney, Ifo Pili, and Manaia Brown (starters from Utah)
14 key contributors from Utah, 11 starters. Team record:4-8


2004: RBs: Curtis Brown and Fahu Tahi top RBs (1 from Utah)
WRs: Only WR in the top 4 was Jason Kukahiko
QB: none
O-line: Rey Feinga, Jake Kuresa, Lance Reynolds, Scott Young (4 of the 5 starters from Utah)
Defense: Cameron Jensen (leading tackler), Brandon Heaney, Manaia Brown (key contributors from Utah)
9 key contributors from Utah, 8 of them starters. Team Record: 5-6

2005
RB: Fahu
WR: Harline (leading receiver), Daniel Coats
QB: none
O-line: Rey Feinga, Jake Kuresa, Dallas Reynolds, Lance Reynolds, David Oswald (all from Utah, all started)
Defense: Cam Jensen, Nate Soelberg, Manaia Brown, KC Bills, Paul Walkenhorst, Bryan Kehl
16 key contributors from Utah, 12 starters from Utah. Team Record: 6-6

2006
RB: Fui
WR: Harline, Coats,
QB: none
O-line: Feinga, Braden Hansen, Jake Kuresa, Dallas Reynolds
Defense: Cam Jensen, Kehl, Jorgensen
12 key contributors from Utah, 10 starters. Team record: 11-2

2007
RB: Fui, Harvey
WR: None
QB: none
O-line: Feinga, Oswald, Dallas Reynolds, Matt Reynolds
Defense: Kehl, Jorgensen, Bauman
9 Key contributors from Utah, 9 starters. Team record: 11-2

2008
RB: Harvey, Fui
WR: none
QB: none
O-line: Feinga, Dallas Reynolds, Matt Reynolds
Defense: Bauman, Fowler, Scott Johnson, Colby Clawson, Jan Jorgensen, Matt Ah You, Matt Putnam
12 key contributors from Utah, 10 starters. Team record: 10-3

2009
RB: Harvey, Kariya
WR: Ashworth
QB: none
O-line: Braden Brown, Braden Hansen
Defense: Scott Johnson, Bauman, Jorgensen, Pendleton, Bills
11 key contributors from Utah, 6 starters. Team record: 11-2

2010
RB: Kariya
WR: Ashworth
QB: Nelson
O-line: Braden Hansen, Matt Reynolds, Braden Brown, Jason Speredon
Defense: Hunter, Austen Jorgensen, Jordan Pendleton, Matt Putnam, Eathyn Manumaleuna
12 key contributors from Utah, 10 starters. Team record: 7-6

2011
RB: Kariya, Alisa
WR: Falslev
QB: Nelson
O-line: Ryker Matthews, Braden Hansen, Braden Brown, Matt Reynolds
Defense: Preston Hadley, Eathyn, Frazier, Pendleton
12 key contributors from Utah, 9 starters. Team record: 10-3

2012
RB: Alisa
WR: Falslev
QB: Nelson
O-line: Braden Hansen, Braden Brown, Ryker, Houston Reynolds
Defense: Preston Hadley, Craig Bills, Bronson Kaufusi
10 key contributors from Utah, 10 starters. Team record: 8-5

2013
RB: Algie Brown
WR: Falslev
QB: none
O-line: Ryker Mathews, Kyle Johnson
Defense: Bills, Povey, Jorgensen, Peck, Hague, Bronson, Blake Morgan, Manoa Pikula
12 key contributors from Utah, 5 starters at the beginning of the year, however they all started at one point or another. Team record: 8-5

Looks to me like the number of key players from Utah has stayed fairly consistent over the last decade.

[Topper]

Let's go back the last 10 years and see how many contributors on the team were from Utah:

2003: Top 3 RBs: Rey Braithwaite, Fui and Fahu. 2 of the top 3 backs from Utah)
Top 4 WRs: Toby Christensen, Chris Hale, Rod Wilkerson, Daniel Coats (all from the state of Utah)
QBs: Berry, Beck, Mortensen and Jackson Brown all played. (Brown from Utah)
O-line: 3 of 5 starters were from Utah (Jake Kuresa, Lance Reynolds, Scott Young)
Defense: Mike Tanner- 74 tackles, Chad Barney, Ifo Pili, and Manaia Brown (starters from Utah)
14 key contributors from Utah, 11 starters. Team record:4-8


2004: RBs: Curtis Brown and Fahu Tahi top RBs (1 from Utah)
WRs: Only WR in the top 4 was Jason Kukahiko
QB: none
O-line: Rey Feinga, Jake Kuresa, Lance Reynolds, Scott Young (4 of the 5 starters from Utah)
Defense: Cameron Jensen (leading tackler), Brandon Heaney, Manaia Brown (key contributors from Utah)
9 key contributors from Utah, 8 of them starters. Team Record: 5-6

2005
RB: Fahu
WR: Harline (leading receiver), Daniel Coats
QB: none
O-line: Rey Feinga, Jake Kuresa, Dallas Reynolds, Lance Reynolds, David Oswald (all from Utah, all started)
Defense: Cam Jensen, Nate Soelberg, Manaia Brown, KC Bills, Paul Walkenhorst, Bryan Kehl
16 key contributors from Utah, 12 starters from Utah. Team Record: 6-6

2006
RB: Fui
WR: Harline, Coats,
QB: none
O-line: Feinga, Braden Hansen, Jake Kuresa, Dallas Reynolds
Defense: Cam Jensen, Kehl, Jorgensen
12 key contributors from Utah, 10 starters. Team record: 11-2

2007
RB: Fui, Harvey
WR: None
QB: none
O-line: Feinga, Oswald, Dallas Reynolds, Matt Reynolds
Defense: Kehl, Jorgensen, Bauman
9 Key contributors from Utah, 9 starters. Team record: 11-2

2008
RB: Harvey, Fui
WR: none
QB: none
O-line: Feinga, Dallas Reynolds, Matt Reynolds
Defense: Bauman, Fowler, Scott Johnson, Colby Clawson, Jan Jorgensen, Matt Ah You, Matt Putnam
12 key contributors from Utah, 10 starters. Team record: 10-3

2009
RB: Harvey, Kariya
WR: Ashworth
QB: none
O-line: Braden Brown, Braden Hansen
Defense: Scott Johnson, Bauman, Jorgensen, Pendleton, Bills
11 key contributors from Utah, 6 starters. Team record: 11-2

2010
RB: Kariya
WR: Ashworth
QB: Nelson
O-line: Braden Hansen, Matt Reynolds, Braden Brown, Jason Speredon
Defense: Hunter, Austen Jorgensen, Jordan Pendleton, Matt Putnam, Eathyn Manumaleuna
12 key contributors from Utah, 10 starters. Team record: 7-6

2011
RB: Kariya, Alisa
WR: Falslev
QB: Nelson
O-line: Ryker Matthews, Braden Hansen, Braden Brown, Matt Reynolds
Defense: Preston Hadley, Eathyn, Frazier, Pendleton
12 key contributors from Utah, 9 starters. Team record: 10-3

2012
RB: Alisa
WR: Falslev
QB: Nelson
O-line: Braden Hansen, Braden Brown, Ryker, Houston Reynolds
Defense: Preston Hadley, Craig Bills, Bronson Kaufusi
10 key contributors from Utah, 10 starters. Team record: 8-5

2013
RB: Algie Brown
WR: Falslev
QB: none
O-line: Ryker Mathews, Kyle Johnson
Defense: Bills, Povey, Jorgensen, Peck, Hague, Bronson, Blake Morgan, Manoa Pikula
12 key contributors from Utah, 5 starters at the beginning of the year, however they all started at one point or another. Team record: 8-5

Looks to me like the number of key players from Utah has stayed fairly consistent over the last decade.

The number seems consistent. Now, I doubt we have statistically meaningful data but how many scholies have been handed out to Utah athletes as opposed to others? Are we handing out more scholies than what we receive in return in comparison to other states?

[cougjunkie]

The number seems consistent. Now, I doubt we have statistically meaningful data but how many scholies have been handed out to Utah athletes as opposed to others? Are we handing out more scholies than what we receive in return in comparison to other states?

I typed up a nice long post comparing Utah players to Non-Utah players but I deleted it on accident.

Non-Utah players represent about 2/3rds of all recruiting classes and BYU has a 30% success rate with them actually contributing on the field and/or completing their eligibility at BYU.

Utah players make up 1/3 of all recruiting classes, and BYU has a 66% success rate with them contributing and completing their eligibility.

Completing your eligibility and contributing may go hand in hand as the more years you stay in school the more opportunities you have to contribute. But it seems BYU hits on a higher percentage of Utah kids than non-Utah kids.

The 2004 and 2009 recruiting classes were really bad for Non-Utah kids.

[Jacob]

I typed up a nice long post comparing Utah players to Non-Utah players but I deleted it on accident.

Non-Utah players represent about 2/3rds of all recruiting classes and BYU has a 30% success rate with them actually contributing on the field and/or completing their eligibility at BYU.

Utah players make up 1/3 of all recruiting classes, and BYU has a 66% success rate with them contributing and completing their eligibility.

Completing your eligibility and contributing may go hand in hand as the more years you stay in school the more opportunities you have to contribute. But it seems BYU hits on a higher percentage of Utah kids than non-Utah kids.

The 2004 and 2009 recruiting classes were really bad for Non-Utah kids.

This confirms what is known at all universities that I posted above. Local talent is more likely to contribute and complete eligibility. Lets not pretend. What folks here have said is that BYU needs to recruit the "skill positions" outside of Utah by going to "the south, California, Texas." What they mean is that BYU needs more black players because black players are genetically superior athletes. Your defense of Utah recruiting is accurate and the trend will likely continue as it has across the country. Your scholarship numbers also put to rest the false argument apparently put forth by Ogletree that BYU focuses too much on Utah recruiting. But these guys don't want more non-Utah recruits. They want more black recruits. That would all be good and well, but the color of their skin really doesn't matter since out-of-state recruits are less likely to contribute. Utah is a white state. Maybe someday they will open up BYU - Rio de Janero and we could send a bunch of black transfers up to BYU-Provo (I'd say BYU-Texas, but the baptismal rate in Brasil is much higher, I am told). Until then, sounds like the coaching staff is focusing on non-Utah recruits perhaps more than is even warranted. Maybe if they kept 50% of the schollies in Utah they might have more of the "Diamond-in-the-rough" guys that Topper wants so that he can see them play in the NFL someday, assuming they are playing for a team his wife will allow him to watch.