Defining Success as an Independent

[LiveCoug]

Success for me would be having independence as a stepping stone to a real conference (Big 12 or PAC 12....). That's really it. I deal with it until then. Then may be a long time from now.

[YOhio]

Success for me would be having independence as a stepping stone to a real conference (Big 12 or PAC 12....). That's really it. I deal with it until then. Then may be a long time from now.

Hey. Me too!

[byu71]

Thank you for saying it's OK for me to feel the way I do.

I hope you didn't think I was being condescending. Back when Bronco became the coach and stated his premises for running the program, I thought he was just wrong thinking that philosophy was compatable with also becoming an elite program.

I took the approach with those who disagreed with me that they were the problem in having that philosophy change. AS long as they were satisfied with beating mediocre teams and having a good W/L percentage, we weren't on our way to the elite status.

I actually eventually came to the conclusion that fans don't have to believe as I do. I actually hoped they were right and I was wrong.

Perhaps expressing that to others it is OK to disagree with me is just my way of saying, it doesn't have to be my way. Perhaps there is a large segment of the fan base who prefer the way things are and that has become OK with me, because I can choose to be as involved emotionally with BYU FB as I choose.

The pain of the loss of Utah lasted 5 minutes where it used to take weeks. Even one of my sons remarked, I don't feel bad about getting beat like I used to.

[Topper]

Hey. Me too!

Agreed.

[myboynoah]

Two consecutive losses to Utah thus far.

C'mon Topper, where's the correlation?

[myboynoah]

Hey. Me too!

Nice avatar, YO. It must feel familiar.

I like mine. Cr33ster's is great.

[The_Douger]

I haven't read much of the previous posts, but I did catch quickly where flystripper said he would say a BCS bowl invite would make sense, but that won't happen as an independent. I may not understand fully what he meant, but if BYU had gone undefeated this year, they would be in a BCS bowl game with this schedule. Easy. Perhaps he is saying BYU as an independent will never be good enough to go undefeated with a schedule such as this one. If so, he's probably right.

I define success similar to if BYU were in a conference. Obviously a BCS bowl is the easy definition of success, but it's not the only definition. If BYU finishes this season 11-1, they could be top 10, maybe top 15 with wins against good BSU, GT, ND and USU teams and I would consider that a success. Being in a conference wouldn't change that.

Outside of a BCS bowl game I would ask myself the following question: What is the final record at the end of the year and who did they beat? That's the formula and I go from there.

The problem is, they aren't obligated to invite us. Even if we finish up at 11-1 and lets say Utah is a 9 or 10 win team, we still wouldn't get the consideration for a BCS game that I would think we'd deserve.

There's no access as an independent. 6-6 or 11-1 we're stuck in a crappy pre-Christmas bowl against team that I won't be real excited to play.

Success is a top 15 ranking or a BCS game to me. I don't think we'll accomplish either of those as an independent or with this coaching staff.

[Topper]

C'mon Topper, where's the correlation?

To negotiate the waters of independence, we need a captain who has experience and knows how to maximize our exposure. Bronco doesn't seem to be that captain.

His only comparison, the Utes, who jumped ship, shows that his nearest competitor is comparatively better.

No correlation but he is judged comparatively to the Utes and losing to them regularly reflects badly.

[The_Douger]

No, we're not tied to them. We are not in their league. Big difference.



Winning the MWC always came with "but look at the league." It has nothing to do with how they act; it has everything to do with their performance ont he field.

Thank you for saying it's OK for me to feel the way I do. Naturally I want to win games against the best competition. I also realize that putting together a schedule isn't easy and you need some crap games sprinkled in. Winning and finishing ranked seems to be the best measure of success. Beyond that, what does the fanbase want? To go back to the MWC? Join the BE? I'd rather see where Independence takes us.

What do you see as the mountain top should we remain indy?

What is the upside?

[OceanBlue]

After watching last night I don't think Oregon State, Boise State,Georgia Tech,Utah State or Notre Dame games favor BYU. Of course lots can change in the upcomng weeks but its pretty clear the first two victories don't mean much. Everyone keeps comparing BYU to the ND model but ND signed with the ACC with ND agreeing to play five ACC teams a year. I applaud BYU for doing something different but I am not sure how succesfull this is or will be.

[myboynoah]

I hope you didn't think I was being condescending.

I did not feel that way.

Success to me is winning ball games and finishing ranked, the higher the better. The rest seems to flow from there.

[Flystripper]

I haven't read much of the previous posts, but I did catch quickly where flystripper said he would say a BCS bowl invite would make sense, but that won't happen as an independent. I may not understand fully what he meant, but if BYU had gone undefeated this year, they would be in a BCS bowl game with this schedule. Easy. Perhaps he is saying BYU as an independent will never be good enough to go undefeated with a schedule such as this one. If so, he's probably right.

I define success similar to if BYU were in a conference. Obviously a BCS bowl is the easy definition of success, but it's not the only definition. If BYU finishes this season 11-1, they could be top 10, maybe top 15 with wins against good BSU, GT, ND and USU teams and I would consider that a success. Being in a conference wouldn't change that.

Outside of a BCS bowl game I would ask myself the following question: What is the final record at the end of the year and who did they beat? That's the formula and I go from there.

When I say that BYU is not going to make a BCS bowl as an independent I am taking several things into account.

1. I agree that if BYU would have gone undefeated this year they would have likely found themselves in a BCS bowl. That was never going to happen with the QB OL and OC situation we currently find ourselves in.

2. BYU currently has the best defense that they have ever had and they will be lucky to win 8 games. Making a BCS game is so far out of the realm of possibility for this program right now that it is hard to even hold BCS as a standard for success but what else do you have as an independent? The stars have to align for BYU and the future has some seriously cloudy skies.

3. I believe that the longer BYU is independent and Utah is in the Pac 12 the more difficult it will be to win important in-state recruiting battles. BYU will have some future challenges with landing the talent they need to succeed. Some of this is due to Utah's good fortunes, but some of it will be due to the lack of buz in the BYU program will due to its playing of an annual exhibition season.

4. If BYU were in a conference and scheduled quality OOC games it would not only have a greater chance with making a BCS game (by only playing 4 high quality OOC teams) but also would have a conference championship to play for once they lost a couple of its OOC games.

5. Playing in a conference ups the odds in playing for a BCS game due to guaranteed access according to the current rules of inclusion. BYU has no guarantees as an independent though I think they would likely be selected if they were in the top 6.

[myboynoah]

What do you see as the mountain top should we remain indy?

What is the upside?

Winning games and finishing ranked as high as possible. Going to the future equivalent of a BCS bowl game would be vindication.

Do people really want to go back to the MWC? To the BE? Do people really miss the possibility of winning an MWC title? Does BYU even display those trophies?

[The_Douger]

Winning games and finishing ranked as high as possible. Going to the future equivalent of a BCS bowl game would be vindication.

Do people really want to go back to the MWC? To the BE? Do people really miss the possibility of winning an MWC title? Does BYU even display those trophies?

I like the schedule next year, but options are quickly drying up with ND joining the ACC, Navy going BE, and everyone going to 9 game schedules.

I just don't see how it's viable long term.

I go back and forth on this, but our season feels over to me. Right now, I'd rather play for the BE title, get Boise at home every other year in Nov on rivalry weekend, and have some meaningful games going forward.

There's still a lot of good teams in the BE, and if the B12 comes calling, we could just pay and leave.

[Topper]

Winning games and finishing ranked as high as possible. Going to the future equivalent of a BCS bowl game would be vindication.

Do people really want to go back to the MWC? To the BE? Do people really miss the possibility of winning an MWC title? Does BYU even display those trophies?

A conference championship in the BE would be preferable although the current loss of the best programs is devaluing that conference.

Return to MWC? No.

If BYU had Kyle, then Independence might make more sense, but Bronco is not strong enough to lead BYU independently.