What do you think the coaches are doing wrong wrt to QB situation?

[smokymountainrain]

I think they're investing too much in Nelson who is going to win us the same amount of games that Jake would going forward. I mean that's why the coaches put Nelson in to begin with, right? To win? Is Jake going to lose to Idaho? New Mexico? I thought Hawaii would play more difficult, but they are pretty terrible. And I now think that's a win no matter who starts at QB. Riley has feasted against terrible competition. Anyone propping up Oregon State as any barometer for this BYU team, only needed to watch John Hays defeat them soundly with 62 yards passing.

I'll go ahead and adopt this line of thinking...now. But I do think Nelson deserved the chance to beat TCU. His ability to run was the only thing that gave BYU a fighting chance. Unfortunately, too many stupid mistakes on the part of the defense, coaching and QB ruined any real chance of winning. Now, get Nelson the hell out of there and go with Heaps or Lark. (I would prefer to see Lark get a chance)

[Hsaru]

I'll go ahead and adopt this line of thinking...now. But I do think Nelson deserved the chance to beat TCU. His ability to run was the only thing that gave BYU a fighting chance. Unfortunately, too many stupid mistakes on the part of the defense, coaching and QB ruined any real chance of winning. Now, get Nelson the hell out of there and go with Heaps or Lark. (I would prefer to see Lark get a chance)

If it wasn't for the punt return which Nelson had nothing to do with, we would be down 35-13 or 42-13, especially if that pick six that Nelson signed sealed and delivered for a TCU corner was caught. At that point Nelson should have been benched, but the punt return lets Bronco say in the post game (If only there was more time on the clock we were going to win! lol).

[smokymountainrain]

If it wasn't for the punt return which Nelson had nothing to do with, we would be down 35-13 or 42-13, especially if that pick six that Nelson signed sealed and delivered for a TCU corner was caught. At that point Nelson should have been benched, but the punt return lets Bronco say in the post game (If only there was more time on the clock we were going to win! lol).

If it weren't for the fumbled punt in the 1st quarter leading directly to a TCU TD, the personal foul on Ogletree to begin the game, the blunder at the end of the half with the FG team, the game would have been completely different. Nelson wasn't good, but if there weren't a handful of stupid mistakes by BYU as a whole, they had a chance to be in and perhaps win that game. Without the running game provided by Nelson, BYU had no chance. You have to be able to run the football in order to beat good teams, unfortunately.

[Guest]

Coaching can always be better. But I generally don't think the coaches are primarily to blame for anything, so I put the first option.

I also put the last option because I think if you have four guys in the program, and two of them (Larks and Munns) appear to be completely worthless, one of them (Heaps) is a bust, and one of them (Nelson) maybe should never have been recruited in the first place, there's at least a little blame on the coaches for not getting the right QB's in the program.

I have to disagree with this, completely. Those four quarterbacks are among the highest rated, coming out of high school, that BYU has ever recruited. Many of the best BYU quarterbacks were three stars, or even lower, coming out of high school.

It seems like it would be a huge coincidence that 4 highly rated QB recruits would end up all as busts, with the "lowest rated", despite being a Parade All-American, looking the best. It seems even more coincidental that the "best" of the four isn't succeeding because of his QB skills but rather based off of athleticism and pure competitiveness.

That tells me there is a major problem in the program, for whatever reason, in developing quarterbacks. It seems even more of a coaching issue when, though Lark competed almost evenly with Nelson for #2 QB all through spring and fall, yet he has yet to take a snap, even in a mop up roll (granted, there haven't been a lot of those, but the end of the Utah game would have been a great time to see what another QB could do).

For whatever reason, BYU is getting good QBs out of high school and they just aren't developing into college level QBs. It also seems completely wrong to label two QBs as "worthless" when we have never seen what they can do in a game environment.

[KillerDog]

Those options suck. I can't vote.

[DU Ute]

I don't really know or care, but I chose the "Nelson shouldn't be on the roster" option because, as an ALUF, I am deeply offended by the tactics Bronco used to recruit him on his mission.

[Shaka]

I voted Nelson is the best we've got right now and coaching is to blame. I don't really agree with the wording of this but it's the closest to how I feel.

Generally I feel like the choices weren't too hot.

[Flystripper]

You can't fault the coaches for bringing Heaps into the program. You choose the next Jake Heaps every time. No question. he looked great in HS. I agree on Lark and Munns. You bring in 2 guys that aren't good enough to literally take one snap in a real game? Something is up with that.

Nelson is interesting. You pass on him originally yet go back to him later...and he proves to have great utility in certain areas. So how did the coaches not see that the first time?

Both Lark and Munns were highly enough recruited that most people were fairly excited about their signings at the time. I don't kow how anyone could think that Munns, Lark or especially Heaps were recruiting mistakes. Personally, I think the only recruiting mistake was Nelson. Nelson is not a QB that fits what BYU traditionally does on offense. He has some unique skills, but they are not elite skills that you want to build a program around and they are not what BYU is able to traditionally recruit. When you have to change up what you do to fit a guy like Nelson, the continuity of the program is interrupted.

The major mistakes with regard to the QB position IMHO are coaching and development failures. I think they put their eggs in the Heaps basket too soon without providing necessary coaching and reps for two other highly recruited QBs on the roster. Nelson should always be the change of pace situational QB so that your offense has consistency and continuity so that all positions can properly develop.

[TripletDaddy]

This is the drum I have been beating for awhile now WRT Nelson. I don't understand why the investment in him now. We have a unique opportunity to get a supremely talented QB games reps in games that are little more than a scrimmage and we're wasting it on medical redshirt junior who has shown us everything he can do IMO.

What the coaches have done poorly is not give Jake (and the other guys) more support in the form of a QB coach who can work just with them. As a first time playcaller, Doman has way too much on his plate to assume both roles. I think that has hurt not just the QB situation, but the offense in general.

I think they're investing too much in Nelson who is going to win us the same amount of games that Jake would going forward. I mean that's why the coaches put Nelson in to begin with, right? To win? Is Jake going to lose to Idaho? New Mexico? I thought Hawaii would play more difficult, but they are pretty terrible. And I now think that's a win no matter who starts at QB. Riley has feasted against terrible competition. Anyone propping up Oregon State as any barometer for this BYU team, only needed to watch John Hays defeat them soundly with 62 yards passing.

I think that they could have used Riley more effectively when Heaps was starting. For example against Texas when Jake was moving the ball but struggling once we got close to the redzone I think Riley could have been more effective. Maybe run a Chris Leak/Tim Tebow scheme. The way they used him in the mildcat was useless. As a running threat he's best when a play breaks down, not on designed QB draws when the defense knows you're running that.

We're camping in the same area. I was the one that was pummeled for suggesting that the season was basically over and that we were going to w.a.s.t.e. valuable reps that Jake could be using.

As it stands, we know now that Riley can beat crappy teams and can't beat good ones. Why did we have to rediscover that again this year? Didn't we already know that from prior years?

I will stand by my assertion that Oregn State was a barometer game from this team and for Nelson. They are not good at all, but BYU historically plays poorly against BCS teams, especially so on the road. We should have won that game and we did, which is a feather in Rileys cap. For the same reason, I still consider Hawaii to be a barometer game. Does anyone here really think that will be an automatic win? I don't. I guess the bowl game will also be one.

This is Broncos mess. He is almost 2 seasons into a QB controversy with the same two QBs and is literally no closer to solving the problem nor making a decision. Last year as I sat in the stands watching this bizarre QB platoon open against Washington, I assumed it would be resolved within a game or two. But no.

Now, many many lifetimes later, lay destroyed..beaten down, only the corpses of rebels, ashes of dreams and blood stained streets. It has been written that those who have the youth have the future, so come now future children of the BEAST conference....be strong and Shout at the Bronco! :rockon1:

[Blueintheface]

I don't see why coug fans bother debating the QB situation. Until you have a conference to play in, none of it matters. Sorry to be so blunt, but that's the situation you're in. Do you really get off by beating up on Idaho and Idaho State with either Heaps or Nelson?

Kory, read a few threads on the subject of conference affiliation and let me know what you find.

[woot]

Coaching can always be better. But I generally don't think the coaches are primarily to blame for anything, so I put the first option.

I also put the last option because I think if you have four guys in the program, and two of them (Larks and Munns) appear to be completely worthless, one of them (Heaps) is a bust, and one of them (Nelson) maybe should never have been recruited in the first place, there's at least a little blame on the coaches for not getting the right QB's in the program.

This opinion seems pretty insane to me. BYU has 3 elite QB prospects in the program, and a high-2/low-3 star guy starting above all of them. The key seems to be that Riley's skillset is such that he can improvise when the plays drawn up don't work. The other 3 don't seem to be able to do that, so when the plays don't work as outlined, they just fail.

The common denominator seems to be that the plays as designed don't work. Whether the scheme is bad or the players aren't able to make the right reads, or able to make the throws they're asked to, or the WRs aren't able to get open, it all seems like a coaching issue to me. It just doesn't make sense to assume that all 3 of our elite QBs are busts when there is much simpler explanation available.

[Hsaru]

This opinion seems pretty insane to me. BYU has 3 elite QB prospects in the program, and a high-2/low-3 star guy starting above all of them. The key seems to be that Riley's skillset is such that he can improvise when the plays drawn up don't work. The other 3 don't seem to be able to do that, so when the plays don't work as outlined, they just fail.

The common denominator seems to be that the plays as designed don't work. Whether the scheme is bad or the players aren't able to make the right reads, or able to make the throws they're asked to, or the WRs aren't able to get open, it all seems like a coaching issue to me. It just doesn't make sense to assume that all 3 of our elite QBs are busts when there is much simpler explanation available.

I have been saying this since Riley first became the starter, noone will even address this for some reason. It is not remotely comforting for what it says about Doman's offense.

I think you even criticized me for calling it the scramble-drill offense, which it has pretty much turned into especially against a defense with a pulse.

[mr_thekid]

I don't see why coug fans bother debating the QB situation. Until you have a conference to play in, none of it matters. Sorry to be so blunt, but that's the situation you're in. Do you really get off by beating up on Idaho and Idaho State with either Heaps or Nelson?

Translation: I don't see why Coug fans bother caring about their team.

[EuropeanFootballMale]

I don't see why coug fans bother debating the QB situation. Until you have a conference to play in, none of it matters. Sorry to be so blunt, but that's the situation you're in. Do you really get off by beating up on Idaho and Idaho State with either Heaps or Nelson?

Sorry to be so blunt, but this is an incredibly stupid post.

[Non Sequitur]

I don't see why coug fans bother debating the QB situation. Until you have a conference to play in, none of it matters. Sorry to be so blunt, but that's the situation you're in. Do you really get off by beating up on Idaho and Idaho State with either Heaps or Nelson?

I agree that it would be great if BYU had something to play for, like a conference championship. I'm sure you feel the same way about your team.