Now that BYU's ascendency to the B12 is obvious (the remix)...

[MarkGrace]

Where is the growth going to come from in our recruiting base to help us compete at a higher level? This is something I've thought quit a bit about in the last couple weeks. I think there's no doubt that the team we saw last year and this we absolutely get trounced in a conference like the B12.

To play in that conference consistency, our overall talent level definitely needs to come up. And, as sad as this is for me to say, I sometimes feel that we don't stand to benefit in recruiting circles as much as Utah. I guess my general (string pulling) impression is the kids that want to come to BYU already do, and those that don't, well, don't, and I'm not sure how much this is going to change with conference affiliation.

BYU absolutely has to start getting the Stanley's, Manti's, Haloti's and Xavier's of the LDS recruiting world, but would much have changed with these kids based solely on BYU being in the B12? I'm worried that a lot of kids either want the BYU experience or they don't, and not much is going to change there. I also there is also is a certain type of LDS kid that is going to want to go to a glamour program, and BYU doesn't become that all of a sudden in a new conference. There's also a factor where a lot of top LDS kids playing in Utah are going to still want to play out of state because that holds a certain sense of adventure or intrigue for them.

What about non-LDS recruits? I guess I just don't see that changing much either. To me the non-LDS kids we kid for the most part don't have any better offers than BYU. Because we are the highest profile school that has offered them, they're willing to compromise on the partying, drinking and boning that most kids want to do in college. Maybe we see a slight uptick here, but how much?

Right now I feel our biggest area of improvement could be with JC kids. Maybe we start seeing a bit higher profile kids from that realm since they don't have to spend a full 4-5 years in Provo.

[Raketemensch]

Yep. In a nutshell I think we need to land more of the high profile Polynesian LDS players, and we need to take a page out of KSU's book and recruit JCs pretty heavily for skill position guys. A speed/skill upgrade in just a few positions would make a big difference.

One thing- Bronco's defense is perfectly designed to hide some glaring personnel weaknesses we have. However, the scheme just isn't attractive for big-time D-linemen. Or DBs. I would like to see us transition towards a more aggressive defensive scheme- I think it would help us land more of the Poly kids. Right now they go to Utah because it's a fun defense to play in and Whit gets guys to the NFL. We need to get back to doing that.

[jay santos]

I think recruiting will improve, but probably only modestly. We are what we are.

We've had years in the past we've been top 20, sometimes top 10, once every 20 years, top 5 maybe. We'll compete in those years the same way that top 20, top 10, top 5 programs fare in a conference like the Big 12.

[Donuthole]

I think recruiting will improve, but probably only modestly. We are what we are.

We've had years in the past we've been top 20, sometimes top 10, once every 20 years, top 5 maybe. We'll compete in those years the same way that top 20, top 10, top 5 programs fare in a conference like the Big 12.

That's a bit of a chicken-egg argument, as there's a decent argument that BYU wouldn't have been top 20, top 10, or top 5 in many of those years if they had played a B12 schedule.

[Commando]

Well we probably don't lose the Ngatas, etc.... and guys like that can make teams like the 06 squad absolutely bulletproof

[jay santos]

That's a bit of a chicken-egg argument, as there's a decent argument that BYU wouldn't have been top 20, top 10, or top 5 in many of those years if they had played a B12 schedule.

Well I don't use poll rankings for my criteria, I use computer rankings, and those are schedule-neutral.

[woot]

We might get a few more of the LDS kids, but I doubt the percentage goes up that much. Unless Bronco is willing to change his recruiting strategy I don't see BYU competing consistently.

Bronco should knock it off with the "letting them recruit us" mentality, and should probably start scouring the JuCo ranks every year to fill in the gaps.

I also worry about the team's offensive identity. I could see Bronco reeling in some good defensive players with his scheme, but the offense is just boring. A team without natural recruiting advantages needs an offense that excites kids, as well as allowing lower recruits to have a schematic advantage. Oregon's offense is exciting, but you need athletes to run it. BSU's offense is probably about right. Word is that Doman wanted to copy that offense to begin with, however, so if this is the result we're screwed.

As much as I hate to say it, another common factor leading to success in unlikely places seems to be having "cool" uniforms. Even Michigan's clown outfits last week got great reviews from recruits, as did Maryland's worst uniforms ever vs. Miami. And we all know how important Oregon's uniforms have been to their success. I don't see Bronco allowing much of that.

So, I guess I don't have my hopes up that BYU will do very well in the Big 12. But I'm still hoping they get in. I'd rather get blown out by Oklahoma than Utah.

[Clark Addison]

I'm no expert, and I think the impact is not huge, but neither is it negligible. I think it comes from two areas.

1. As mentioned, I think we get a few more of the Ngata, Manti Te'o types. There aren't going to all that many of them, but they can still have a significant impact on things.

2. Maybe as importantly, I think (hope?) that the floor rises up a little. You get rid of some of the guys who truly suck, and can bring a whole unit down. How many times have we seen a defense that would be pretty good if we could only replace that CB who couldn't cover, or the undersized MLB who runs like a D-lineman? I htink if you replace guys like this who are just normal, solid contributers, you can have a pretty decent impact.

[woot]

2. Maybe as importantly, I think (hope?) that the floor rises up a little. You get rid of some of the guys who truly suck, and can bring a whole unit down. How many times have we seen a defense that would be pretty good if we could only replace that CB who couldn't cover, or the undersized MLB who runs like a D-lineman? I htink if you replace guys like this who are just normal, solid contributers, you can have a pretty decent impact.

Good point. Perhaps this is where most of the improvement will come from. Rather than pulling a few great prospects and hoping they can make up for half the roster being 2-star recruits, those same players would be able to perform better surrounded by a bunch of 3-stars. It would still require that Bronco go out and recruit the type of player that has a bunch of mid-major offers but really wants to go BCS. Hopefully he would loosen up a bit.

[Blueintheface]

Good point. Perhaps this is where most of the improvement will come from. Rather than pulling a few great prospects and hoping they can make up for half the roster being 2-star recruits, those same players would be able to perform better surrounded by a bunch of 3-stars. It would still require that Bronco go out and recruit the type of player that has a bunch of mid-major offers but really wants to go BCS. Hopefully he would loosen up a bit.

I tend to think Bronco won't change but I also tend to believe that even without Bronco changing he'll still get a few of these top LDS guys that we've lost out on recently. I think the Head Coach card can be overplayed, especially in Bronco's case. If he surrounds himself with assistants who can recruit, great players will come because they want to compete against the top tier. An entrance into the Big 12 would facilitate that.

I do however agree that without mortgaging the future Bronco should set his sights on more JC guys.

[Goatnapper'96]

Here are my thoughts on recruiting:

1.) BYU needs to upgrade but I think the most glaring need is defensive backfield. I think BYU needs to improve JC recruiting and I think they should and will. They have a more compelling angle for better JC recruits than they had a couple of years ago. I see no reason why BYU cannot land JC players of similar quality and capability as Kansas State.

2.) I think this might help with more top notch LDS kids, but not significantly and it probably isn't as neccesary. I have long maintained that the competitive difference between Haloti Ngata and whoever the next best LDS DT was is not near as huge as the difference will be between what I think BYU should be able to recruit to CB, in time with the Big-12 affiliation, and Preston Hadley or Corby Eason.

3.) I never believed the "they must recruit us" BS that many throw around about Bronco. However, I also think while he is a solid recruiter he is going to have to do better for BYU to consistently compete. I think he will. I doubt he suddenly becomes a great recruiter but he has a more compelling story to tell non-LDS JC recruits and I figure he will use it to his advantage. I could see BYU's CB recruiting returning to where it was the latter half of the 90's where BYU had some really good defenses but the offense fell apart.

All things considered if BYU can upgrade their defensive backfield by 30%, the entire defense is likely to improve by 50%. I have no clue what that means but I thought I would throw it out there, my point is that football is the ultimate whole being more than the sum of the parts and if BYU can cover in pass defense with corners and safeties, I think we will see that our core base has long been providing upper level front 7 caliber players.

[Goatnapper'96]

I tend to think Bronco won't change but I also tend to believe that even without Bronco changing he'll still get a few of these top LDS guys that we've lost out on recently. I think the Head Coach card can be overplayed, especially in Bronco's case. If he surrounds himself with assistants who can recruit, great players will come because they want to compete against the top tier. An entrance into the Big 12 would facilitate that.

I do however agree that without mortgaging the future Bronco should set his sights on more JC guys.

I am interested to see how recruiting plays out with this younger and supposedly more charismatic coaching staff. I tend to agree with you, Bronco is Bronco but the storyline is now more compelling and IMO the benefits should be more tangible with the JC non-LDS recruiting opportunities.

[Paperback Writer]

I think the Big12 could help BYU recruiting substantially. Most of the reasons have already been given but I think the "bump" will be greater.

• It puts BYU back on equal footing with Utah for in-state recruits.
• More attractive to highly ranked LDS players nation wide.
• Better access to talented JC recruits who don't have equivalent offers.
• The occasional underrated non-LDS player who's willing to abide by the HC.

I go back and forth on how I think BYU will fare in the Big12. BYU's better teams may upset OU or Texas and be competitive against Tech, TCU, and Okie St. However, if BYU has an off-year, they will be challenged to defeat Iowa St. and Baylor.

It just might come down to how well BYU does in the Big 12 and how well Utah does in the PAC-12. BYU will always get the player who wants the "BYU experience". What they need is to get the talented LDS player who doesn't care much about the "BYU experience" and just wants to play for a winning football program in a BCS conference.

[Pelado]

What they need is to get the talented LDS player who doesn't care much about the "BYU experience" and just wants to play for a winning football program in a BCS conference.

We're screwed.

[Paperback Writer]

Here are my thoughts on recruiting:

1.) BYU needs to upgrade but I think the most glaring need is defensive backfield. I think BYU needs to improve JC recruiting and I think they should and will. They have a more compelling angle for better JC recruits than they had a couple of years ago. I see no reason why BYU cannot land JC players of similar quality and capability as Kansas State.

How successful will BYU be with African American JC transfers? And its not just KSU that has their eyes on them. Nebraska and everyone else is going after top JC recruits. Perhaps BYU will have an edge in pitching to an AA CB that they won't have near the competition at BYU to transfer and start right away than at other Big 12 schools. But will that "pitch" outweigh having to sign the HC?

2.) I think this might help with more top notch LDS kids, but not significantly and it probably isn't as neccesary. I have long maintained that the competitive difference between Haloti Ngata and whoever the next best LDS DT was is not near as huge as the difference will be between what I think BYU should be able to recruit to CB, in time with the Big-12 affiliation, and Preston Hadley or Corby Eason.

I'm not familar with the talent differential between D-lineman and CB at BYU. But Ngata was special and those players don't come around all that often. It reminds me of Nebraska and Ndamukong Suh. Suh made that Blackshirt defense special but there was also some good CBs on that team. Don't know...I'm rambling. Your point is well taken. BYU will have a lot harder time recruiting CB talent than DL talent. The Big12 should help...hiring an AA secondary coach might just help more.

3.) I never believed the "they must recruit us" BS that many throw around about Bronco. However, I also think while he is a solid recruiter he is going to have to do better for BYU to consistently compete. I think he will. I doubt he suddenly becomes a great recruiter but he has a more compelling story to tell non-LDS JC recruits and I figure he will use it to his advantage. I could see BYU's CB recruiting returning to where it was the latter half of the 90's where BYU had some really good defenses but the offense fell apart.

All things considered if BYU can upgrade their defensive backfield by 30%, the entire defense is likely to improve by 50%. I have no clue what that means but I thought I would throw it out there, my point is that football is the ultimate whole being more than the sum of the parts and if BYU can cover in pass defense with corners and safeties, I think we will see that our core base has long been providing upper level front 7 caliber players.

Do you think Bronco will ever hire another DC? I don't know if that is a factor. BYU seems to play decent D with the talent they have. A defense can also scheme around the talent they do have - this seems to be what BYU does. I just don't know if quality AA CBs are just going to start hopping on the next plane to Provo - I guess it's possible.