Omer thought he needed to fix something too

[taekwondave]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700139736/BYU-football-program-doing-its-best-to-get-bigger-faster-and-stronger.html?s_cid=rss-28

[woot]

I thought of you as I read that article yesterday. What a terribly written one it is, though. I mean wow, Harmon.

[oxcoug]

Good hell - I mean what is going on that this is some kind of revelation for Omer and crew? That it took us to 2011 to realize we didn't want O linemen w/ huge guts hanging over their belts? Or to realize that McKay Jacobsen shouldn't have the same training regimen as Terrence Brown?

That blows my mind and doesn't do wonders for my confidence in the program's leadership.

[wuapinmon]

I´m glad taekwondave is back. As to Omer, his daughter Nissa married a good friend of mine from high school. That´s not relevant to this thread, but I felt like name dropping.

[CardiacCoug]

When I saw Charles Abuou doing a lot of passive stretching before games, it made me wonder how scientific teams are about conditioning and things like stretching.

I think there is a lot of tradition and pseudoscience out there with strength and conditioning and a lot of coaches and players probably waste time or do things that actually are counterproductive. Makes me think of this article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/sp...in&oref=slogin

Researchers now believe that some of the more entrenched elements of many athletes’ warm-up regimens are not only a waste of time but actually bad for you. The old presumption that holding a stretch for 20 to 30 seconds — known as static stretching — primes muscles for a workout is dead wrong. It actually weakens them. In a recent study conducted at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, athletes generated less force from their leg muscles after static stretching than they did after not stretching at all. Other studies have found that this stretching decreases muscle strength by as much as 30 percent. Also, stretching one leg’s muscles can reduce strength in the other leg as well, probably because the central nervous system rebels against the movements.

[old_gregg]

When I saw Charles Abuou doing a lot of passive stretching before games, it made me wonder how scientific teams are about conditioning and things like stretching.

I think there is a lot of tradition and pseudoscience out there with strength and conditioning and a lot of coaches and players probably waste time or do things that actually are counterproductive. Makes me think of this article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/sp...in&oref=slogin

the football team does not do traditional stretching before practice. their reason for not doing so is in agreement with the nyt article.

[CardiacCoug]

the football team does not do traditional stretching before practice. their reason for not doing so is in agreement with the nyt article.

I seem to recall seeing the football team out on the field before games doing static stretching, too. Maybe if you don't hold the stretches very long it's not as bad for your strength -- seems from the article that holding a stretch for more than around 20 seconds is bad. I have to say that from what I know of the physiology of muscles (like the heart) it makes a lot of sense that prolonged static stretching would be detrimental to muscle strength.

[pellegrino]

I seem to recall seeing the football team out on the field before games doing static stretching, too. Maybe if you don't hold the stretches very long it's not as bad for your strength -- seems from the article that holding a stretch for more than around 20 seconds is bad. I have to say that from what I know of the physiology of muscles (like the heart) it makes a lot of sense that prolonged static stretching would be detrimental to muscle strength.

so then how do you increase flexibility without decreasing muscle strength? It seems to me that in order to increase flexibility (a good thing for many sports) you would have to have some level of static stretching.

[ERCougar]

so then how do you increase flexibility without decreasing muscle strength? It seems to me that in order to increase flexibility (a good thing for many sports) you would have to have some level of static stretching.

Stretch after workouts, for one. The detriment to strength is immediate, but not permanent.

We've actually known this for a long time. And yet, there are plenty of athletes, even pro ones, out doing stretches before workouts or games. Habits are tough to break,i guess.

[TripletDaddy]

In this instance, does "strength" refer to the likelihood of cramps or pulled muscles?

I didn't think stretching before games for athletes was related to strength as much as flexibility. Or are they the same thing?

[pelagius]

In this instance, does "strength" refer to the likelihood of cramps or pulled muscles?

No. The result is the following: for a typical athlete or lifter, their max back squat will be greater if they don't do static stretching before maxing out (it is empirically true for other lifts as well). This is a pretty well known result in weight lifting. Thus if you engage in a activity that involves explosive effort, then you are probably hurting your performance some by engaging in static stretching before the activity.

Use a dynamic warmup instead.

[CardiacCoug]

In this instance, does "strength" refer to the likelihood of cramps or pulled muscles?

I didn't think stretching before games for athletes was related to strength as much as flexibility. Or are they the same thing?

I think the idea is that muscles function optimally when they are in a non-stretched state. You have more favorable overlap of the fibers and so the muscles actually are stronger before you stretch the muscle out.

So warming the muscles up before you go all out in a competition probably prevents injury (pulled muscles, cramps, etc.), but passive stretching before a game just makes you weaker.

[KillerDog]

The fact that they are just now getting to this is disturbing. This knkowledge has been at BYU since the 80s but is only now getting to the football team. I find that disturbing.

Instead of stretching at the beginning of a workout: Get the blood flowing, slowly work through range of motion exercises, train, then stretch.

[BlueHair]

The fact that they are just now getting to this is disturbing. This knkowledge has been at BYU since the 80s but is only now getting to the football team. I find that disturbing.

Instead of stretching at the beginning of a workout: Get the blood flowing, slowly work through range of motion exercises, train, then stretch.

Is it beneficial to stretch in the morning if you don't plan on working out? Will stretching in the morning harm an afternoon workout?

[Hazzard]

A lot of football teams have ditched stretching. I've read some articles that state that it's better to do a gradual warm-up (start off slowly, then slowly build up to full speed) than stretching. I am the furthest thing from a scientist so I have no idea how to verify the validity of the claims, but the idea that stretching is not good seems to be gathering a lot of momentum in the scientific and athletic communities.