PAC 10 is now talking expansion..

[Mr. Crimson]

Oregon State was one of the founding schools. Washington State was added before SC and UCLA.

Oregon St was not a founding member of what is now the Pac-10. Those schools were member of the Pacific Coast Conference which was disbanded in 1959 over a pay for play scandal.

Cal-Stanford-UCLA-USC and Washington created a Big Five conference, Wazzu was added to make a six and the Oregon schools weren't added for another couple of years. Wazzu is lucky that Washington needed a rival to play.

In fact the President at Oregon was one of the biggest driving forces behind the creation of the WAC, Oregon and Oregon St would have been founding members of the WAC. But when the six realized you can't just have a six team conference they came back for the Oregon Schools.

[TripletDaddy]

Oregon St was not a founding member of what is now the Pac-10. Those schools were member of the Pacific Coast Conference which was disbanded in 1959 over a pay for play scandal.

Cal-Stanford-UCLA-USC and Washington created a Big Five conference, Wazzu was added to make a six and the Oregon schools weren't added for another couple of years. Wazzu is lucky that Washington needed a rival to play.

In fact the President at Oregon was one of the biggest driving forces behind the creation of the WAC, Oregon and Oregon St would have been founding members of the WAC. But when the six realized you can't just have a six team conference they came back for the Oregon Schools.

I am trying to decide how much of this post you ripped off from wikipedia. The first paragraph for sure, but most likely the entire thing.

All these schools tout themselves as founding members of the PAC and it is generally considered that they are. This is not in dispute amongst those that follow the PAC 10.

http://www.pac-10.org/school-bio/pac10-school-bio.html

scroll down to the section that says "Pac 10 History."

Recognize.
Repent.
Re-emerge a new you.

[SeattleUte]

You may be right, I am not sure.

the only thing I do know for sure is that the PAC consists entirely and exclusively of schools that are paired off geographically...not only in the same state, but in almost all instances, within very short distances of each other.

I know only one thing for sure. BYU will never be in the Pac 10--never--unless it radically changes itself. I'd sooner picture pigs flying. (College conferences are a whole lot about culture.) The rest is conjecture.

I almost think that BYU needs to be a big fish in a little pond. I wonder if even the Big 12 would put up with the restrictions and rules about Sunday play, etc., weirdness like firing profs for political speech, or banning Rodin's JTB, the LDS church's control which is unparalleled at any reputable church school, the still unresolved historic racism, LDS church attitudes about women and gays, etc. I know that politically, the Big 12 footprint does not resemble the Pac 10's, but the academic community is a breed apart anywhere you go (including to some extent at BYU). I can't picture BYU easily giving up the control and automony it has in the MWC. I'm thinking BYU has to stay a big fish.

Also, it's not like these conferences don't have multiple options.

[Surfah]

I know only one thing for sure. BYU will never be in the Pac 10--never--unless it radically changes itself. I'd sooner picture pigs flying. (College conferences are a whole lot about culture.) The rest is conjecture.

I almost think that BYU needs to be a big fish in a little pond. I wonder if even the Big 12 would put up with the restrictions and rules about Sunday play, etc., weirdness like firing profs for political speech, or banning Rodin's JTB, the LDS church's control which is unparalleled at any reputable church school, the still unresolved historic racism, LDS church attitudes about women and gays, etc. I know that politically, the Big 12 footprint does not resemble the Pac 10's, but the academic community is a breed apart anywhere you go (including to some extent at BYU). I can't picture BYU easily giving up the control and automony it has in the MWC. I'm thinking BYU has to stay a big fish.

Also, it's not like these conferences don't have multiple options.

I hate to agree with this, but you really have to if you're being honest.

[SeattleUte]

I am trying to decide how much of this post you ripped off from wikipedia. The first paragraph for sure, but most likely the entire thing.

All these schools tout themselves as founding members of the PAC and it is generally considered that they are. This is not in dispute amongst those that follow the PAC 10.

http://www.pac-10.org/school-bio/pac10-school-bio.html

scroll down to the section that says "Pac 10 History."

Recognize.
Repent.
Re-emerge a new you.

He didn't plagiarize it that I can see. Do you expect people to do original research? Have such useless information ready in their memory banks?

YOU'RE OUT OF LINE! APOLOGIZE.

[LA Ute]

I hate to agree with this, but you really have to if you're being honest.

This is the argument (which is quite reasonable) for both schools staying in the MWC and trying to upgrade it to BCS qualifier status. In a strange way BYU and Utah need each other, or have intertwined destinies, or something like that; and it seems very diifficult for both of them to leave the MWC and go to another conference together.

[SeattleUte]

[ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4750901"]Notre Dame Fighting Irish on potential Big Ten membership: We prefer independence - ESPN@@AMEPARAM@@http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4750083@@AMEPARAM@@4750083[/ame]

This article is telling. ND wants to stay independent not because it makes financial sense but because, well, it values its independence. Maybe BYU is in a similar situation. (ND's president talked about scheduling flexibility but I think there's more to it than that.)

Also, note Mizzou's body language is it would be delighted with a Big 10 offer. This makes me think Colorado would react the same way to a Pac 10 offer.

[myboynoah]

This is the argument (which is quite reasonable) for both schools staying in the MWC and trying to upgrade it to BCS qualifier status. In a strange way BYU and Utah need each other, or have intertwined destinies, or something like that; and it seems very diifficult for both of them to go to another conference.

Oh ya big lunk. Fascination with lengthy hokey Dr. Seuss ripoffs aside, you're still good people. It is for Ute Fans like you that I am happy when the Utes prevail.

[SeattleUte]

This is the argument (which is quite reasonable) for both schools staying in the MWC and trying to upgrade it to BCS qualifier status. In a strange way BYU and Utah need each other, or have intertwined destinies, or something like that; and it seems very diifficult for both of them to go to another conference.

FACTS please. How does Utah need BYU? Is there any love for Utah at BYU? On the contrary.

No. Utah would do well to distance itself from BYU. They compete for students, not just athletes (actually the main area in which sports does help academics is good teams tend to boost applications), and boosters/fans. Utah needs to set itself apart because it can't compete for the people unless it really differentiates its product. Also, being in the Pac 10 would hep make Utah more of a national school in terms of students.

[SeattleUte]

Oh ya big lunk. Fascination with lengthy hokey Dr. Seuss ripoffs aside, you're still good people. It is for Ute Fans like you that I am happy when the Utes prevail.

Fortunately Utah administrators aren't so sentimintal about BYU.

[John McClain]

Fortunately Utah administrators aren't so sentimintal about BYU.

Tell that to Michael Young!

[myboynoah]

Fortunately Utah administrators aren't so sentimintal about BYU.

I'm sure President Young gets plenty sentimental when he looks back upon his days at the "Y".

Edit: John McClain is one astute thinker.

[SeattleUte]

Michael Young ought to be BYU's president by all rights. But BYU stopped appointing real scholars to be its presidents after Rex Lee died. That Michael Young is where he is and not at BYU speaks volumes. Michael Young is also a brilliant lawyer and knows what it is to be a fiduciary. This is like what people were saying about President Kennedy and Catholicism.

[LA Ute]

FACTS please. How does Utah need BYU? Is there any love for Utah at BYU? On the contrary.

No. Utah would do well to distance itself from BYU. They compete for students, not just athletes (actually the main area in which sports does help academics is good teams tend to boost applications), and boosters/fans. Utah needs to set itself apart because it can't compete for the people unless it really differentiates its product. Also, being in the Pac 10 would hep make Utah more of a national school in terms of students.

I am wont to say something about the "mystic chords of memory" or some such thing. It's just a gestalt, really. The two schools are joined at the hip in a very weird way, by history, religion, culture, geography, and similar factors.

On a more practical level, the PAC-10 is made up if 5 natural and long-standing rivalries. I don't think they'll take BYU so Utah would have to go alone. Would the PAC-10 even want that, even if we promised to form a really rip-roaring rivalry with Colorado or whoever else joins? Would the U's trustees, the Regents, and the Legislature go along? I don't know but I can foresee quite a push-back, especially if the effect of Utah's leaving is to disadvantage BYU in any way.

I'm sure President Young gets plenty sentimental when he looks back upon his days at the "Y".

I think he has pretty much "gone Ute," just as Cecil Samuelsen has gone . . . well, you know.

Oh ya big lunk. Fascination with lengthy hokey Dr. Seuss ripoffs aside, you're still good people. It is for Ute Fans like you that I am happy when the Utes prevail.

Awwww . . . now I am getting verklempt again.

[TripletDaddy]

I hate to agree with this, but you really have to if you're being honest.

I know only one thing for sure. BYU will never be in the Pac 10--never--unless it radically changes itself. I'd sooner picture pigs flying. (College conferences are a whole lot about culture.) The rest is conjecture.

I am having a hard time agreeing with this sentence since it is, by definition, conjecture in itself.

I still consider myself an honest person.