If BYU had beaten Arizona in 2008, would Utah have been elected no. 1 in the AP Poll?

[SeattleUte]

You mean computer polls that where using margin of victory was expressly verboten?

That's like saying you have the fastest car based on a downhill race where the car is out of gas and gravity is the only accelerant.

MOV. LOL. Talk to Lebowski about MOV. Or talk to Saben. Neither of those teams have been MOV world beaters this year.

Hot Lunch has lectured me on worthlessness of MOV.

[Indy Coug]

MOV. LOL. Talk to Lebowski about MOV. Or talk to Saben. Neither of those teams have been MOV world beaters this year.

Hot Lunch has lectured me on worthlessness of MOV.

If you're going to refer me to Lebowski or HotLunch about MOV, then you have effectively depantsed yourself.

[jay santos]

"Crappy BCS bowls"? LOL. That's the gold standard.

You're wrong. Utah was the consensus champ per the computers, which don't have agendas, which don't know how to lie:

http://www.cougaruteforum.com/showth...light=computer

I'm all for you using computer polls in your arguments. I think they're the best ranking system. But you should do a little research first to know what you're talking about.

[SeattleUte]

Check out BYU 1984 MOV's (check out against whom):

1984
Date BYU Opp.
9/1 20 at Pittsburgh 14
9/8 47 Baylor 13
9/15 38 Tulsa 15
9/22 18 at Hawaii 13
10/6 52 at Colorado St. 9
10/13 41 Wyoming (H) 38
10/20 30 at Air Force 25
10/25 48 at New Mexico 0
11/3 42 UTEP 9
11/10 34 San Diego St. 3
11/17 24 at Utah 14
11/24 38 Utah St. 13
12/21 24 ^ Michigan (B) 17

Indy, how many of these opponents had winning records (despite their own weak schedules)?

[Indy Coug]

Check out BYU 1984 MOV's (check out against whom):

And?

[SeattleUte]

I'm all for you using computer polls in your arguments. I think they're the best ranking system. But you should do a little research first to know what you're talking about.

BCS doesn't consider MOV's for good reason. They are, I think we can all agree, the most unreliable means to determining a team's strength. This is especially so since the teams play such readically disparate schedules. Who cares about the RUTS/moral issue. MOV is a stupid thing to consider, especically when teams have played completely different schedules.

[Indy Coug]

BCS doesn't consider MOV's for good reason. They are, I think we can all agree, the most unreliable means to determining a team's strength. This is especially so since the teams play such readically disparate schedules. Who cares about the RUTS/moral issue. MOV is a stupid thing to consider, especically when teams have played completely different schedules.

Not if you take into account BOTH the MOV and SOS.

[SeattleUte]

And?

I see five wins of 7 points or less, against bad teams. Utah was bad and BYU only beat it by 10.

[Jeff Lebowski]

If you're going to refer me to Lebowski or HotLunch about MOV, then you have effectively depantsed yourself.

I am not exactly sure how to interpret this post. Should HotLunch or I be offended?

[Jarid in Cedar]

I am not exactly sure how to interpret this post. Should HotLunch or I be offended?

I find that if there is ever any question on whether to take offense, the default should be to take offense.

[SeattleUte]

For you MOV mavens, Utah's 2008 MOV's:

2008 Football Schedule and Results
DATE OPPONENT RESULT/TIME RECORD/TICKETS
August 30 at Michigan W 25-23 1-0 (0-0)
September 6 UNLV W 42-21 2-0 (1-0)
September 13 at Utah State W 58-10 3-0 (1-0)
September 20 at Air Force W 30-23 4-0 (2-0)
September 27 Weber State W 37-21 5-0 (2-0)
October 2 Oregon State W 31-28 6-0 (2-0)
October 11 at Wyoming W 40-7 7-0 (3-0)
October 18 Colorado State W 49-16 8-0 (4-0)
November 1 at New Mexico W 13-10 9-0 (5-0)
November 6 No. 12 TCU W 13-10 10-0 (6-0)
November 15 at San Diego State W 63-14 11-0 (7-0)
November 22 No. 14 Brigham Young W 48-24 12-0 (8-0)
January 2 vs. No. 4 Alabama* W 31-17 13-0 (8-0)

I count four wins of seven points or less out of 13, and one of these was against the no. 7 team in the final poll. There were also blowout wins against the no. 14 and the no. 4 team.

[Indy Coug]

For you MOV mavens, Utah's 2008 MOV's:



I count four wins of seven points or less out of 13, and one of these was against the no. 7 team in the final poll. There were also blowout wins against the no. 14 and the no. 4 team.

Your counting sucks. Utah had 5 wins by 7 points or less.

P.S. 14 points is not a blowout win

[Coach McGuirk]

How did this thread end up over 40 posts? I put the over under at 6.

[SeattleUte]

Your counting sucks. Utah had 5 wins by 7 points or less.

P.S. 14 points is not a blowout win

I just find your selective MOV/SOS conversion telling and amusingly counter productive. If TCU had Utah's 2008 outcome you'd be all over proclaiming TCU the de facto national champion based on the BCS computers, which really are the gold standard. I mean, how do they determine who will play in the "NC" game in the first place?

After that Michigan game in 1984 did it taste truly sweet or more like a Diet Coke?

[Indy Coug]

I just find your selective MOV/SOS conversion telling and amusingly counter productive. If TCU had Utah's 2008 outcome you'd be all over proclaiming TCU the de facto national champion based on the BCS computers, which really are the gold standard. I mean, how do they determine who will play in the "NC" game in the first place?

After that Michigan game in 1984 did it taste truly sweet or more like a Diet Coke?

I'm hanging my hat on national consensus and you're hanging your hat on emasculated computer algorithms. Even with the watered down computer polls Utah wasn't the consensus 2008 winner (see the Massey site listing the computer poll averages). So you have neither national consensus, nor poll consensus.

BYU 1 Utah 0