Harvey Unga

[SoCalCoug]

Right now, there is no heir apparent in the program.

We've got three true freshmen running backs committed for next year: A.J. Moore (5-10, 190), #67 RB; Algernon Brown (6-1, 205), #71 RB; Drew Phillips (6-0, 185), #122 RB. I don't believe any of these are going on a mission.

Scout.com records go back only to 2002; during that time, Adam Hine (#25) and J.J. DiLuigi (#64) have been higher-ranked nationally than Moore and Brown. We also had Jerry Bruner (no longer in the program) who was the #100 RB.

If we get Quezada (5-11, 210, #56), that's 4 nationally-ranked RB's that are coming in next year. Chances are, if DiLuigi can't handle primary RB duties, one of these will be able to step in and do well.

We have never had this many quality RB's commit to BYU at the same time. They will a veteran O-line, as well.

I think the only RB's who came in with arguably more credentials were Ronney Jenkins, Luke Staley, and maybe Marcus Whalen.

Of all the positions on offense (other than maybe kicker), RB is the most likely for a true freshman to be able to come in and make an impact.

I think we're heading into an unprecedented era of RB talent for BYU.

[jay santos]

We've got three true freshmen running backs committed for next year: A.J. Moore (5-10, 190), #67 RB; Algernon Brown (6-1, 205), #71 RB; Drew Phillips (6-0, 185), #122 RB. I don't believe any of these are going on a mission.

Scout.com records go back only to 2002; during that time, Adam Hine (#25) and J.J. DiLuigi (#64) have been higher-ranked nationally than Moore and Brown. We also had Jerry Bruner (no longer in the program) who was the #100 RB.

If we get Quezada (5-11, 210, #56), that's 4 nationally-ranked RB's that are coming in next year. Chances are, if DiLuigi can't handle primary RB duties, one of these will be able to step in and do well.

We have never had this many quality RB's commit to BYU at the same time. They will a veteran O-line, as well.

I think the only RB's who came in with arguably more credentials were Ronney Jenkins, Luke Staley, and maybe Marcus Whalen.

Of all the positions on offense (other than maybe kicker), RB is the most likely for a true freshman to be able to come in and make an impact.

I think we're heading into an unprecedented era of RB talent for BYU.

I'm not sure why we should be excited about a #67 rated or below RB. DiLuigi at #64 is basically awful. A #67 means there was 66 RB's on college rosters recruited above him. Since a good RB will start for two years, that means there's a pool of 132 running backs better than ours.

[Hot Lunch]

Scout.com records go back only to 2002; during that time, Adam Hine (#25) and J.J. DiLuigi (#64) have been higher-ranked nationally than Moore and Brown. We also had Jerry Bruner (no longer in the program) who was the #100 RB.

If we get Quezada (5-11, 210, #56), that's 4 nationally-ranked RB's that are coming in next year. Chances are, if DiLuigi can't handle primary RB duties, one of these will be able to step in and do well.

We have never had this many quality RB's commit to BYU at the same time. They will a veteran O-line, as well.

I think the only RB's who came in with arguably more credentials were Ronney Jenkins, Luke Staley, and maybe Marcus Whalen.

Of all the positions on offense (other than maybe kicker), RB is the most likely for a true freshman to be able to come in and make an impact.

I think we're heading into an unprecedented era of RB talent for BYU.

Hine very well could be but he isn't back until 2011. JJ isn't. He is not an every down back. I also disagree with the O line. Outside of Matt Reynolds, there isn't a lot of talent on the current O line. There is some talent on missions right now but not in the program.

[New Mexican Disaster]

I'm not sure why we should be excited about a #67 rated or below RB. DiLuigi at #64 is basically awful. A #67 means there was 66 RB's on college rosters recruited above him. Since a good RB will start for two years, that means there's a pool of 132 running backs better than ours.

What was Harvey's ranking?

[SoCalCoug]

What was Harvey's ranking?

He was unranked.

[creekster]

He was unranked.

wow, so there are HUNDREDS of backs better than him! WHere are all those BCS programs keeping them?

[jay santos]

What was Harvey's ranking?

I understand your point. But obviously there's not a straight line of improvement from Harvey at unranked to whoever at #64 in his class. Harvey's playing at a level that's like #10 in his class. For every Harvey there are 200 guys that don't pan out. SoCal's trying to convince us why we have stellar RB's in the queue.

[New Mexican Disaster]

I understand your point. But obviously there's not a straight line of improvement from Harvey at unranked to whoever at #64 in his class. Harvey's playing at a level that's like #10 in his class. For every Harvey there are 200 guys that don't pan out. SoCal's trying to convince us why we have stellar RB's in the queue.

True enough. Let's also agree that we will be lucky to ever get recruits much higher than that at the RB position. QB and TE yes.

I am not comforted by how we are at the position in the future although I am not as pessimistic about Diluigi. I think he can be a decent back but not spectacular.

[SoCalCoug]

Hine very well could be but he isn't back until 2011. JJ isn't. He is not an every down back. I also disagree with the O line. Outside of Matt Reynolds, there isn't a lot of talent on the current O line. There is some talent on missions right now but not in the program.

Why isn't he an every down back? Sure, he's not as big as Harvey, but who really has running backs as big as Harvey anyway? J.J.'s right at about 200 lbs. (listed at 198), pretty solid for his height, and he's averaging 5.9 yards per carry (with 30 carries) and no fumbles. He's got to improve his hands a bit, that I'll give you. Curtis Brown was listed at 203 his senior year. Is it because of blocking? I keep hearing that J.J.'s not an every down back, and I'm not sure what the criteria are.

Besides, why does he have to be an every down back? Aren't teams going to RB by committee these days? I think with J.J., Kariya, and only one of the incoming freshmen, that's a pretty good RB corps next year.

You know better than I do about the linemen, but I did only say "veteran" O-line next year. Everyone except Willing is back, and Speredon (who was pretty highly recruited, I believe - he was the #56 O-lineman per Scout in 2003) will hopefully be back from injury. Don't we have a highly-touted redshirt or two, as well? If he stays on the O-line, remember that Houston Reynolds was considered a top-20 center coming out of HS.

[Hot Lunch]

Why isn't he an every down back? Sure, he's not as big as Harvey, but who really has running backs as big as Harvey anyway? J.J.'s right at about 200 lbs. (listed at 198), pretty solid for his height, and he's averaging 5.9 yards per carry (with 30 carries) and no fumbles. He's got to improve his hands a bit, that I'll give you. Curtis Brown was listed at 203 his senior year. Is it because of blocking? I keep hearing that J.J.'s not an every down back, and I'm not sure what the criteria are.

Besides, why does he have to be an every down back? Aren't teams going to RB by committee these days? I think with J.J., Kariya, and only one of the incoming freshmen, that's a pretty good RB corps next year.

You know better than I do about the linemen, but I did only say "veteran" O-line next year. Everyone except Willing is back, and Speredon (who was pretty highly recruited, I believe - he was the #56 O-lineman per Scout in 2003) will hopefully be back from injury. Don't we have a highly-touted redshirt or two, as well? If he stays on the O-line, remember that Houston Reynolds was considered a top-20 center coming out of HS.

Didn't around 15 of those carries and the bulk of his rushing yards come against Tulane? I think Bingham High could beat Tulane. JJ just hasn't done anything to impress me yet. Maybe I am just sick of hearing from many cougar fans that he is the future of BYU. I just don't think he will take over and ever be the feature back. I think they would go to Malosi Te'o before JJ to be that. A lot of teams are switching to running back by committee. If Harvey doesn't come back you can expect that from BYU next year.

They will be a vetren O line doesn't mean they have the talent they once had. Little Reynolds is redshirting because of injury right now but they only have about 8 guys that are even putting on pads every week on the O line. They are very thin there this year. I won't count on Speardon until he is healthy enough to last a season. I also don't think anyone knows how good he is because he doesn't have many game reps.

[SoCalCoug]

I'm not sure why we should be excited about a #67 rated or below RB. DiLuigi at #64 is basically awful. A #67 means there was 66 RB's on college rosters recruited above him. Since a good RB will start for two years, that means there's a pool of 132 running backs better than ours.

And 15 of those are on USC's roster right now.

Here's why I'm excited. For years, BYU's been mostly out of the running for highly-recruited running backs. They've been lucky in recent years with a couple of RB's (Curtis Brown & Harvey Unga) who were unrated by scouting agencies, and who weren't exactly raking in the offers. That's the last 7 years that we've relied primarily on these two guys. Most of the time, our RB stable didn't even get a sniff of the top 100 coming out of high school. Now we're bringing in guys who are getting national recognition. Services that claim to be (and for the most part appear to be) objective say these guys are among the top 100 RB's this year.

If you go by your logic, you could say there's a pool of at least 519 running backs who are better than Harvey Unga. (Harvey was unranked, this year -assuming other years are relatively consistent - there were 173 running backs ranked by Scout.com, and Harvey's started for 3 years.) We've been drawing primarily from the unranked guys in the past and relied on luck (or the ability to spot talent) that one or more of these would exceed expectations.

We've now got some guys coming in who are more highly thought of, in general, coming out of high school. The general talent level for this class of RB's appears to be higher than the general talent level BYU has drawn in the past. Don't you think it's therefore more likely than in the past that one or two are going to stand out?

It's all possibilities now. I think as you move up the rankings ladder, you generally are looking at more talented guys. Whereas we have generally been drawing from guys at the positions below #173 on that ladder, now (at least for 2010) we're apparently drawing from the 50's - 100's.

Remember what happened when Luke Staley got injured in 2001? We ended up with basically no running back. Who backed up Curtis Brown?

If you're drawing from a higher-level talent pool, you're going to increase your chances of getting talented running backs.

It appears that BYU, particularly for 2010, is drawing from a higher-level talent pool than they're used to. I'd say that can only be positive.

[SoCalCoug]

Didn't around 15 of those carries and the bulk of his rushing yards come against Tulane? I think Bingham High could beat Tulane. JJ just hasn't done anything to impress me yet. Maybe I am just sick of hearing from many cougar fans that he is the future of BYU. I just don't think he will take over and ever be the feature back. I think they would go to Malosi Te'o before JJ to be that. A lot of teams are switching to running back by committee. If Harvey doesn't come back you can expect that from BYU next year.

They will be a vetren O line doesn't mean they have the talent they once had. Little Reynolds is redshirting because of injury right now but they only have about 8 guys that are even putting on pads every week on the O line. They are very thin there this year. I won't count on Speardon until he is healthy enough to last a season. I also don't think anyone knows how good he is because he doesn't have many game reps.

DiLuigi was 12 for 71 for a 5.9 yard average against Tulane. That means his non-Tulane rushing average is still 5.9 yards per carry. Harvey's clearly the primary running back, and it makes sense he's going to get the bulk of the carries. But I don't see where J.J.'s as bad as you think. I still haven't seen any reasoning short of "J.J. sucks". I think he's shown some good quickness and more speed than I expected. Maybe it's just because I wasn't really expecting that much out of him in the first place, but when they've given him the ball this year, he's been gaining yards. 5.9 per carry, to be precise.

I kind of forgot about Malosi Te'o, too. Add him to the mix, and the point is, that's a pretty good RB committee, if Harvey leaves next year. I'm not saying they're going to be better than Harvey would. But it's not like we're not going to be able to run the ball. Plus, there's some promising freshmen coming in. If just one of those show something next year, it will add to the depth.

I agree with you that BYU's going to probably go to RB by committee next year (if Harvey leaves), and that J.J. probably won't be the "feature" back - but he'll be part of a pretty good RB corps. But I'm just not seeing it like you are - this year is the first time I've even entertained thoughts that maybe J.J. could become a feature back. Not saying he will, but I've been impressed with him this year.

[jay santos]

And 15 of those are on USC's roster right now.

Here's why I'm excited. For years, BYU's been mostly out of the running for highly-recruited running backs. They've been lucky in recent years with a couple of RB's (Curtis Brown & Harvey Unga) who were unrated by scouting agencies, and who weren't exactly raking in the offers. That's the last 7 years that we've relied primarily on these two guys. Most of the time, our RB stable didn't even get a sniff of the top 100 coming out of high school. Now we're bringing in guys who are getting national recognition. Services that claim to be (and for the most part appear to be) objective say these guys are among the top 100 RB's this year.

If you go by your logic, you could say there's a pool of at least 519 running backs who are better than Harvey Unga. (Harvey was unranked, this year -assuming other years are relatively consistent - there were 173 running backs ranked by Scout.com, and Harvey's started for 3 years.) We've been drawing primarily from the unranked guys in the past and relied on luck (or the ability to spot talent) that one or more of these would exceed expectations.

We've now got some guys coming in who are more highly thought of, in general, coming out of high school. The general talent level for this class of RB's appears to be higher than the general talent level BYU has drawn in the past. Don't you think it's therefore more likely than in the past that one or two are going to stand out?

It's all possibilities now. I think as you move up the rankings ladder, you generally are looking at more talented guys. Whereas we have generally been drawing from guys at the positions below #173 on that ladder, now (at least for 2010) we're apparently drawing from the 50's - 100's.

Remember what happened when Luke Staley got injured in 2001? We ended up with basically no running back. Who backed up Curtis Brown?

If you're drawing from a higher-level talent pool, you're going to increase your chances of getting talented running backs.

It appears that BYU, particularly for 2010, is drawing from a higher-level talent pool than they're used to. I'd say that can only be positive.

Maybe. I'm not convinced a #60 RB is that talented of a recruit. And I'm not convinced it's higher caliber than what we've had in the past. Ronney Jenkins, Reno Mahe, Fahu Tahi, Luke Staley. I remember all of these guys as big recruits. But I could be wrong on the ratings.

[SoCalCoug]

Maybe. I'm not convinced a #60 RB is that talented of a recruit. And I'm not convinced it's higher caliber than what we've had in the past. Ronney Jenkins, Reno Mahe, Fahu Tahi, Luke Staley. I remember all of these guys as big recruits. But I could be wrong on the ratings.

Luke and Ronney Jenkins, probably. Reno Mahe and Fahu Tahi - I really don't think so. They may have been better recruits than we were used to at the time, but I don't think either were that highly recruited.

[Solon]

Best offensive player in the conference bar none.

By the way Ute fans I think David Reed is the best receiver in the conference, he is at least 1a. and Vincent Brown is 1b.

Unga's the best back in the conference has had for the past 5 years. Maybe more. I have extreme Unga-envy.