Team before the league

[jay santos]

I don't know why I'm doing torturing myself like this, but I'm listening to the last hour of the post game show on KSL this morning.

Nate Miekle chastises Wrubell for him saying he hopes TCU goes undefeated and represents the conference in the BCS. Miekle says BYU still has a chance for conference championship

I'm thinking about this, and I'm with Wrubell. I give next to no value as a fan to winning the MWC championship. I want to win out, beat Utah, go to a bowl and win the bowl game, but none of this depends on winning the MWC and winning or tying the MWC in and of itself means nothing to me. BB is different because it helps dictate your postseason play.

[SoCalCoug]

TCU pretty much showed that they're a better team than BYU. I don't expect they're going to lose any conference games.

I'm a TCU fan, now for the rest of the season. They deserve a BCS berth, and they will show why the MWC deserves an auto bid.

Utah is not going to beat them. Therefore, there's no way we're going to get a share of the conference championship this year.

[byu71]

I don't know why I'm doing torturing myself like this, but I'm listening to the last hour of the post game show on KSL this morning.

Nate Miekle chastises Wrubell for him saying he hopes TCU goes undefeated and represents the conference in the BCS. Miekle says BYU still has a chance for conference championship

I'm thinking about this, and I'm with Wrubell. I give next to no value as a fan to winning the MWC championship. I want to win out, beat Utah, go to a bowl and win the bowl game, but none of this depends on winning the MWC and winning or tying the MWC in and of itself means nothing to me. BB is different because it helps dictate your postseason play.

I am with you and Wrubbell. Utah beats TCU and we beat Utah at home. For those players at BYU they have a conf. championship and I feel good for them. However, on a personal basis I would rather win the sportsmanship trophy than share a chamionship with a team that wiped me out on my own field.

[SCcoug]

I don't see TCU losing. This situation is why football post-season sucks. Like you said in basketball you wouldn't feel the need to cheer for the team in the driver's seat for a conference champion to win out, yet for football it is in the long term interest of BYU fans to do just that.

[Blueintheface]

Any BYU fan that hopes for a TCU loss at this point is probably of the same ilk that shows up early for firesides and a half hour late to games. What the Hell do I care if we "share" a conference championship with TCU and Utah? We just got reamed by a better team, better coach, better program and no three-way split of a meaningless championship can change that.

Bronco-Mendenhall-on-a-popsicle-stick I hate our idiotic fanbase and current coaching staff, with the exception of one guy. Call me when a firey Brandon Doman is in charge and decides to practice at full speed, add some wrinkles, and grabs an idiot by the facemask when it's warranted. Automotron's time is done yet he will be coaching as long as the mullahs see those pews full on Friday night.

[byu71]

Any BYU fan that hopes for a TCU loss at this point is probably of the same ilk that shows up early for firesides and a half hour late to games. What the Hell do I care if we "share" a conference championship with TCU and Utah? We just got reamed by a better team, better coach, better program and no three-way split of a meaningless championship can change that.

Bronco-Mendenhall-on-a-popsicle-stick I hate our idiotic fanbase and current coaching staff, with the exception of one guy. Call me when a firey Brandon Doman is in charge and decides to practice at full speed, add some wrinkles, and grabs an idiot by the facemask when it's warranted. Automotron's time is done yet he will be coaching as long as the mullahs see those pews full on Friday night.

No offense meant to Elder Eyring, but if he interviews the next coach, he will be just like Bronco. I am quite content with Bronco and think anyone who wishes for a change is wishing for a disaster.

There is a reason Whitt didn't want the job, Reid didn't want the job and Reynolds didn't get it.

[Blueintheface]

No offense meant to Elder Eyring, but if he interviews the next coach, he will be just like Bronco. I am quite content with Bronco and think anyone who wishes for a change is wishing for a disaster.

There is a reason Whitt didn't want the job, Reid didn't want the job and Reynolds didn't get it.

A disaster like what, losing to the dregs of this conference? What does that matter? At least I wouldn't have to listen to a coach preach about returning to a National Championship while doing very little to reach that goal. Hey coach, I've got an idea...since they smoked you last year how about you do absolutely nothing to change your gameplan or preparation for this year and you arrogantly assume you'll win because it's played in your home stadium where you haven't played decently yet this year. We'll just out execute 'em. Yeah, we'll just kill 'em with our testimonies.

[SoCalCoug]

I posted this on CB a couple of weeks ago, but this is why I'm not devastated by the loss - the future is still bright, and BYU has substantially better talent coming in during the next few years:

(rankings according to Scout.com - these are for commits)

2003: 2 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2004: 2 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2005: 2 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2006: 2 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2007: 4 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2008: 3 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2009: 8 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2010: 10 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position (so far)

There is a significant change in the overall athletic ability of our players coming in the next few years.

Patience, people. We don't have the talent comparable to TCU, yet. But I think it's coming - I'm extremely happy with Bronco's recent recruiting. I like the trend.

[byu71]

I posted this on CB a couple of weeks ago, but this is why I'm not devastated by the loss - the future is still bright, and BYU has substantially better talent coming in during the next few years:

(rankings according to Scout.com - these are for commits)

2003: 2 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2004: 2 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2005: 2 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2006: 2 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2007: 4 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2008: 3 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2009: 8 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2010: 10 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position (so far)

There is a significant change in the overall athletic ability of our players coming in the next few years.

Patience, people. We don't have the talent comparable to TCU, yet. But I think it's coming - I'm extremely happy with Bronco's recent recruiting. I like the trend.

I believe things will get better too. I think you can thank TCU and Utah for that. The number of non-LDS kids and kids that aren't mission bound has also increased the last couple of years.

I actually feel quite vindicated when it comes to the arguments I used to have over on CB. I always felt Bronco could be a very good coach, just that he was in lala land when it came to the "they will have to recruit BYU" kind of rhetoric.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I believe things will get better too. I think you can thank TCU and Utah for that. The number of non-LDS kids and kids that aren't mission bound has also increased the last couple of years.

I actually feel quite vindicated when it comes to the arguments I used to have over on CB. I always felt Bronco could be a very good coach, just that he was in lala land when it came to the "they will have to recruit BYU" kind of rhetoric.

Yep, juniors and seniors right now were recruited during the 03 and 04 seasons. I know another ass kicking at the hands of TCU isn't fun, but Bronco's won 10+games during the previous three seasons and the recruiting has improved along with the wins. Eventually BYU will better be able to match up with teams like TCU.

[beefytee]

I posted this on CB a couple of weeks ago, but this is why I'm not devastated by the loss - the future is still bright, and BYU has substantially better talent coming in during the next few years:

(rankings according to Scout.com - these are for commits)

2003: 2 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2004: 2 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2005: 2 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2006: 2 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2007: 4 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2008: 3 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2009: 8 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2010: 10 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position (so far)

There is a significant change in the overall athletic ability of our players coming in the next few years.

Patience, people. We don't have the talent comparable to TCU, yet. But I think it's coming - I'm extremely happy with Bronco's recent recruiting. I like the trend.

Excellent post.

I was thinking the same thing. The other thing I've been thinking about is how good is BYU going to be next year?

My guess is not very good. Probably not 10 wins good anyway.

I think things look really bright after that though.

[Jarid in Cedar]

I posted this on CB a couple of weeks ago, but this is why I'm not devastated by the loss - the future is still bright, and BYU has substantially better talent coming in during the next few years:

(rankings according to Scout.com - these are for commits)

2003: 2 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2004: 2 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2005: 2 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2006: 2 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2007: 4 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2008: 3 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2009: 8 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2010: 10 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position (so far)

There is a significant change in the overall athletic ability of our players coming in the next few years.

Patience, people. We don't have the talent comparable to TCU, yet. But I think it's coming - I'm extremely happy with Bronco's recent recruiting. I like the trend.

While I understand the enthusiasm, the one thing that you have to be able to do is develop the recruits as well. Outside of Harvey Unga, is there a Jr or Senior who is substantially better than they were as sophs. I don't know your players well enough to answer that question. I would worry that any OLB regardless of recruit rating would be able to cover Kerley on a 3rd and long.

[SoCalCoug]

I posted this on CB a couple of weeks ago, but this is why I'm not devastated by the loss - the future is still bright, and BYU has substantially better talent coming in during the next few years:

(rankings according to Scout.com - these are for commits)

2003: 2 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2004: 2 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2005: 2 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2006: 2 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2007: 4 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2008: 3 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2009: 8 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position
2010: 10 HS commits ranked in the top 50 nationally at their position (so far)

There is a significant change in the overall athletic ability of our players coming in the next few years.

Patience, people. We don't have the talent comparable to TCU, yet. But I think it's coming - I'm extremely happy with Bronco's recent recruiting. I like the trend.

Not to go all Indy on you, but I thought it'd be interesting to break it down a little more.

Here are the names of the top 50-ranked commits:

2003: [2] Ofa Mohetau (#2 OL), Brian Soi (#16 DT)
2004: [2] Jacob Bower (#38 QB), Austin Collie (#48 WR)
2005: [2] Matt Reynolds (#8 OL), Vic So'oto (#15 TE)
2006: [2] James Lark (#16 QB), Matangi Tonga (#26 DT)
2007: [4] Houston Reynolds (#15 C), Jason Munns (#27 QB), Devin Mahina (#46 TE), Star Lotulelei (#47 DE)
2008: [3] Austin Holt (#5 TE), Justin Sorensen (#19 K), Cameron Comer (#37 CB)
2009: [8] Terry Alletto (#7 C), Richard Wilson (#9 TE), Kyle Van Noy (#11 WLB), Craig Bills (#15 S), J'ray Galeai (#23 S), Adam Hine (#25 RB), Tui Crichton (#29 OG), Remington Peck (#43 TE)
2010: [10] Jake Heaps (#1 QB), Graham Rowley (#7 OG), Zac Stout (#7 MLB), Bronson Kaufusi (#11 DE), Blair Tushaus (#13 C), Kona Schwenke (#34 DE), Brian Sampson (#43 TE), Alani Fua (#45 OLB), Ross Apo (#49 WR), Tui Kanuch (#50 DT)

A few notes: (1) On that entire list, there are only 4 players who have contributed substantially so far: Matt Reynolds, Austin Collie, Vic So'oto, and Justin Sorensen. One of those is now playing in the NFL, and another (Matt Reynolds) likely will. Those who stayed at BYU have done well, even excelled. Of that list there are 23 players who still could contribute substantially. (2) The top-50 players over the last 2 years represent 11 different positions. The previous 6 years represent 9 different positions (heavy on the O-line and QB). (3) 1/4 of the top-50 commits to BYU from 2003 - 2006 (i.e., 2 of 8) will end their careers as either the best ever at their position at BYU (Austin Collie) or among the best (Matt Reynolds).

As I was thinking about this, I thought I'd break it out a little further, to if anything changes when you extend it to the top 75 at their position. This is what I came up with:

2003: [3] Ofa Mohetau (#2 OL), Brian Soi (#16 DT), Jason Speredon (#56 OL)
2004: [2] Jacob Bower (#38 QB), Austin Collie (#48 WR)
2005: [4] Matt Reynolds (#8 OL), Vic So'oto (#15 TE), Russell Tialavea (#61 DT), Kyle Leukenga (#65 TE)
2006: [4] James Lark (#16 QB), Matangi Tonga (#26 DT), McKay Jacobson (#55 WR), Rhen Brown (#73 CB)

2007: [9] Houston Reynolds (#15 C), Jason Munns (#27 QB), Devin Mahina (#46 TE), Star Lotulelei (#47 DE), Marcus Mathews (#51 WR), Manaaki Vaitai (#55 OG), J.J. DiLuigi (#64 RB), Ryan Kessman (#69 WR), David Angilau (#69 DT)
2008: [5] Austin Holt (#5 TE), Justin Sorensen (#19 K), Cameron Comer (#37 CB), Shiloah Te'o (#61 S), Jake Murphy (#62 WR)
2009: [10] Terry Alletto (#7 C), Richard Wilson (#9 TE), Kyle Van Noy (#11 WLB), Craig Bills (#15 S), J'ray Galeai (#23 S), Adam Hine (#25 RB), Tui Crichton (#29 OG), Remington Peck (#43 TE), Brett Thompson (#55 WR), Ryan Mulitalo (#71 OG)
2010: [17] Jake Heaps (#1 QB), Graham Rowley (#7 OG), Zac Stout (#7 MLB), Bronson Kaufusi (#11 DE), Blair Tushaus (#13 C), Kona Schwenke (#34 DE), Brian Sampson (#43 TE), Alani Fua (#45 OLB), Ross Apo (#49 WR), Tui Kanuch (#50 DT), Manu Mulitalo (#54 OG), Sae Tautu (#56 OLB), Joey Owens (#65 OLB), A.J. Moore (#67 RB), Jordan Black (#69 OT), Algernon Brown (#71 RB), Tayo Fabuluje (#71 OT)

This gets a "Holy crap!" from me. Bronco's first full recruiting year as head coach was 2006. I see a bit of a pattern there - way more top talent than ever before. (I don't think anyone can say BYU's recruiting pre-2003 was substantially different than 2003-2006.) There's also a large percentage of those top players who have been able to stay at BYU who have provided huge contributions to BYU's teams. And, there's a TON of talent waiting in the wings who have not yet had the opportunity to contribute.

The glaring omission in the last few years is at CB, which maybe suggests that's always going to be a deficiency at BYU. But there seems to be a lot of RB's - maybe some can move to the other side of the field and contribute at CB in the future. The WR's in recent years tend to be big bodies, so I doubt CB will be bolstered by any of the WR recruits.

This is why I say the future is very bright for BYU - a substantial influx in upgraded talent is coming down the pipe.

[jay santos]

Not to go all Indy on you, but I thought it'd be interesting to break it down a little more.

Here are the names of the top 50-ranked commits:

2003: [2] Ofa Mohetau (#2 OL), Brian Soi (#16 DT)
2004: [2] Jacob Bower (#38 QB), Austin Collie (#48 WR)
2005: [2] Matt Reynolds (#8 OL), Vic So'oto (#15 TE)
2006: [2] James Lark (#16 QB), Matangi Tonga (#26 DT)
2007: [4] Houston Reynolds (#15 C), Jason Munns (#27 QB), Devin Mahina (#46 TE), Star Lotulelei (#47 DE)
2008: [3] Austin Holt (#5 TE), Justin Sorensen (#19 K), Cameron Comer (#37 CB)
2009: [8] Terry Alletto (#7 C), Richard Wilson (#9 TE), Kyle Van Noy (#11 WLB), Craig Bills (#15 S), J'ray Galeai (#23 S), Adam Hine (#25 RB), Tui Crichton (#29 OG), Remington Peck (#43 TE)
2010: [10] Jake Heaps (#1 QB), Graham Rowley (#7 OG), Zac Stout (#7 MLB), Bronson Kaufusi (#11 DE), Blair Tushaus (#13 C), Kona Schwenke (#34 DE), Brian Sampson (#43 TE), Alani Fua (#45 OLB), Ross Apo (#49 WR), Tui Kanuch (#50 DT)

A few notes: (1) On that entire list, there are only 4 players who have contributed substantially so far: Matt Reynolds, Austin Collie, Vic So'oto, and Justin Sorensen. One of those is now playing in the NFL, and another (Matt Reynolds) likely will. Those who stayed at BYU have done well, even excelled. Of that list there are 23 players who still could contribute substantially. (2) The top-50 players over the last 2 years represent 11 different positions. The previous 6 years represent 9 different positions (heavy on the O-line and QB). (3) 1/4 of the top-50 commits to BYU from 2003 - 2006 (i.e., 2 of 8) will end their careers as either the best ever at their position at BYU (Austin Collie) or among the best (Matt Reynolds).

As I was thinking about this, I thought I'd break it out a little further, to if anything changes when you extend it to the top 75 at their position. This is what I came up with:

2003: [3] Ofa Mohetau (#2 OL), Brian Soi (#16 DT), Jason Speredon (#56 OL)
2004: [2] Jacob Bower (#38 QB), Austin Collie (#48 WR)
2005: [4] Matt Reynolds (#8 OL), Vic So'oto (#15 TE), Russell Tialavea (#61 DT), Kyle Leukenga (#65 TE)
2006: [4] James Lark (#16 QB), Matangi Tonga (#26 DT), McKay Jacobson (#55 WR), Rhen Brown (#73 CB)

2007: [9] Houston Reynolds (#15 C), Jason Munns (#27 QB), Devin Mahina (#46 TE), Star Lotulelei (#47 DE), Marcus Mathews (#51 WR), Manaaki Vaitai (#55 OG), J.J. DiLuigi (#64 RB), Ryan Kessman (#69 WR), David Angilau (#69 DT)
2008: [5] Austin Holt (#5 TE), Justin Sorensen (#19 K), Cameron Comer (#37 CB), Shiloah Te'o (#61 S), Jake Murphy (#62 WR)
2009: [10] Terry Alletto (#7 C), Richard Wilson (#9 TE), Kyle Van Noy (#11 WLB), Craig Bills (#15 S), J'ray Galeai (#23 S), Adam Hine (#25 RB), Tui Crichton (#29 OG), Remington Peck (#43 TE), Brett Thompson (#55 WR), Ryan Mulitalo (#71 OG)
2010: [17] Jake Heaps (#1 QB), Graham Rowley (#7 OG), Zac Stout (#7 MLB), Bronson Kaufusi (#11 DE), Blair Tushaus (#13 C), Kona Schwenke (#34 DE), Brian Sampson (#43 TE), Alani Fua (#45 OLB), Ross Apo (#49 WR), Tui Kanuch (#50 DT), Manu Mulitalo (#54 OG), Sae Tautu (#56 OLB), Joey Owens (#65 OLB), A.J. Moore (#67 RB), Jordan Black (#69 OT), Algernon Brown (#71 RB), Tayo Fabuluje (#71 OT)

This gets a "Holy crap!" from me. Bronco's first full recruiting year as head coach was 2006. I see a bit of a pattern there - way more top talent than ever before. (I don't think anyone can say BYU's recruiting pre-2003 was substantially different than 2003-2006.) There's also a large percentage of those top players who have been able to stay at BYU who have provided huge contributions to BYU's teams. And, there's a TON of talent waiting in the wings who have not yet had the opportunity to contribute.

The glaring omission in the last few years is at CB, which maybe suggests that's always going to be a deficiency at BYU. But there seems to be a lot of RB's - maybe some can move to the other side of the field and contribute at CB in the future. The WR's in recent years tend to be big bodies, so I doubt CB will be bolstered by any of the WR recruits.

This is why I say the future is very bright for BYU - a substantial influx in upgraded talent is coming down the pipe.

Thank you!

[ERCougar]

Not to go all Indy on you, but I thought it'd be interesting to break it down a little more.

Here are the names of the top 50-ranked commits:
.
.
.

That's a sweet list, SCC. Thanks for the pick-me-up.