The shock of the century in sports! David Ortiz tested positive for PEDs in 2003!

[Guest]

Every passing month Barry Lamar fades into the rest of the pack.

There were a lot of self-righteous a-hole soxs and yankee fans (redundant, I know) chucking syringes at him, while touting their "clean" heroes and collecting all of the rings for a decade.

Now Lamar is just another face in the crowd.

[TripletDaddy]

Every passing month Barry Lamar fades into the rest of the pack.

There were a lot of self-righteous a-hole soxs and yankee fans (redundant, I know) chucking syringes at him, while touting their "clean" heroes and collecting all of the rings for a decade.

Now Lamar is just another face in the crowd.

Unfortunately, he is fading into a pack of players that will collectively be denied admission into the Hall. It is already happening to Big Mac.

Barry can never completely fade into a crowd given the size of his humongous pumpkin head.

[Guest]

Unfortunately, he is fading into a pack of players that will collectively be denied admission into the Hall. It is already happening to Big Mac.

Sounds right. And it's probably not too unfortunate. But Hall or not, comparing McGwire's career to BLB's is laughable. Even if BLB's career had ended in '99, the year Game of Shadows says he started cycling, he has more stats than half the players in the HOF.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Sounds right. And it's probably not too unfortunate. But Hall or not, comparing McGwire's career to BLB's is laughable. Even if BLB's career had ended in '99, the year Game of Shadows says he started cycling, he has more stats than half the players in the HOF.

I absolutely agree with this.

[TripletDaddy]

Sounds right. And it's probably not too unfortunate. But Hall or not, comparing McGwire's career to BLB's is laughable. Even if BLB's career had ended in '99, the year Game of Shadows says he started cycling, he has more stats than half the players in the HOF.

Yes, I don't think many will disagree with that.

But it is the same circular argument. If he was so good, why did he start cheating?

The vote will penalize him not for his pre-juice numbers, but for being a liar about steroids, a huge jerk his whole career (esp to the media), and for breaking the HR record while juicing.

btw, I wasn't trying to compare their careers, but their situations are analogous. I used Big Mac as an example of how the media have already begun punishing players for their involvement in the steroid scandals. I think we will continue to see more of this as guys like Palmeiro come up for a vote.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Yes, I don't think many will disagree with that.

But it is the same circular argument. If he was so good, why did he start cheating?

.

Ego, he was tired of all the press that Sammy and McGwire were getting over the home run chase. They were clearly 1/3 the player that he was, even at the time, yet the press was fawning over them like they were John the baptist and Jesus Christ come to save baseball.

[Guest]

Ego, he was tired of all the press that Sammy and McGwire were getting over the home run chase. They were clearly 1/3 the player that he was, even at the time, yet the press was fawning over them like they were John the baptist and Jesus Christ come to save baseball.

That's right. According to Fainaru-Wada and Williams he was jealous of the 1998 HR chase.

[Guest]

btw, I wasn't trying to compare their careers, but their situations are analogous. I used Big Mac as an example of how the media have already begun punishing players for their involvement in the steroid scandals. I think we will continue to see more of this as guys like Palmeiro come up for a vote.

Sure, but their careers are not analogous (McGwire's, Palmerio, Manny, etc), therefore their HOF status is not really either. The only player outside of the Hall who is analogous to Bonds is Clemens

In Clemens you have a seven time Cy Young winner with 300 wins and 4,000 strikeouts.

Bonds has seven MVPs (the next closest has three, in the history of the game) with the most all time and single season HRs. 400x400, 40X40, most walks, etc.

Throw in the all time hits leader Rose and the three top stats guys for baseball could be out of the Hall. lol.

[TripletDaddy]

Sure, but their careers are not analogous (McGwire's, Palmerio, Manny, etc), therefore their HOF status is not really either. The only player outside of the Hall who is analogous to Bonds is Clemens

In Clemens you have a seven time Cy Young winner with 300 wins and 4,000 strikeouts.

Bonds has seven MVPs (the next closest has three, in the history of the game) with the most all time and single season HRs. 400x400, 40X40, most walks, etc.

Throw in the all time hits leader Rose and the three top stats guys for baseball could be out of the Hall. lol.

well, too bad for him that he cheated, I guess. otherwise he would be in the HOF.

The media hates him. They won't give him any breaks. And his scandals haven't gone anywhere. He could still see jail time for lying under oath.

I guess he could publicly admit that his All-time home run record is a fraud, as is the single season HR record. Hank Aaron has already said as much, indicating that he still considers himself the All-Time HR leader. I think that sort of admission would go a long way towards making people forget.

The more I think about your original statement, the more I disagree. Bonds' baggage hasn't gone anywhere. Wait until he becomes eligible. You will see a boat load of baggage dumped at the terminal.

[DrumNFeather]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Baseball has a rich history of cheaters and it should embrace it.

They just need to have a special section in the HOF dedicated to the cheaters like the Blacksocks, Pete Rose, the steroid users etc...

I remember when the real LT got into the NFL HOF and the comment was..."it isn't the hall of good guys, it's the hall of fame."

If you're judging Pete Rose based on on the field accomplishments he deserves to get in. Yet interestingly enough, he's one of the only people whose career is impacted by what he did as a manager. Just kind of interesting.

[Guest]

The more I think about your original statement, the more I disagree. Bonds' baggage hasn't gone anywhere. Wait until he becomes eligible. You will see a boat load of baggage dumped at the terminal.

What I'm saying, to use your imagery, is Bonds and Clemens will be at the front of the line, and platform behind them will have a horde of the most dominant power players of the last 15 years - all with the same luggage. Bonds no longer stands alone.

[Fiyero]

Q: How many Red Sox have used steroids?

A: Unknown, but even members of their security staff were juicing last summer:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4372389