Which lineup would compete more for a championship?

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Assume that the Hornets would have traded Tyson Chandler for Boozer at the end of last season and assume that Chandler doesn't have the injury issues. I'm obviously using Chandler as an illustration of the type of player that the Jazz would need to be better come playoff time.

Does a Jazz roster that includes a healthy Chandler (hell, put Bynum in his place) instead of Boozer stand a better shot in the playoffs?

I think the Jazz would have a starting lineup of Kirilenko, Millsap, Chandler, Brewer and Williams. Okur starts coming off the bench. Chandler fills the glaring holes the Jazz have on the defensive end and adds a lot more athleticism to the front line. The Hornets were a damn good team last year. Williams may not be as good as Paul, but he's somewhat close, and I think the remainder of the Jazz roster is better than what the Hornets have.

This team still wouldn't have stood a chance against the Lakers this year with players like Bynum and Ariza healthy. But last year? The Jazz pushed the Lakers to 6 with some very competitive games. The obvious weak link was Boozer on the defensive end and Boozer being dominated by Odom and Gasol. Boozer's fine against the Golden States of the league, but come playoff time he's exposed by teams like the Spurs and Lakers.

[MarkGrace]

Does a Jazz roster that includes a healthy Chandler (hell, put Bynum in his place) instead of Boozer stand a better shot in the playoffs?

No.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

I really wish the Jazz would have gone after Marcus Camby when he was on the market last summer. Even if it would have meant giving a good piece to a division rival.

[smokymountainrain]

No.

I don't disagree much with Grace on Jazz related stuff, but on this one he is dead wrong. Put a healthy Chandler in Boozer's place and the Jazz are probably a 2-4 seed and would have a realistic shot at playing in the WF finals.

[Surfah]

I don't disagree much with Grace on Jazz related stuff, but on this one he is dead wrong. Put a healthy Chandler in Boozer's place and the Jazz are probably a 2-4 seed and would have a realistic shot at playing in the WF finals.

To be honest if the Jazz weren't the 8th seed they'd have a realistic shot at playing in the WC Finals.

2-7 is wide open. There are no upsets in those matchups as far as I am concerned.

[smokymountainrain]

To be honest if the Jazz weren't the 8th seed they'd have a realistic shot at playing in the WC Finals.

2-7 is wide open. There are no upsets in those matchups as far as I am concerned.

Yep. I made that too complicated. All Chandler would have to do is be the difference between 8 and 7.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Yep. I made that too complicated. All Chandler would have to do is be the difference between 8 and 7.

There is no clear cut no. 2 in the Western Conference. With a healthy Chandler, the Jazz would be. With a starting 5 of Brewer, Williams, Chandler, Kirilenko and Millsap, the Jazz go from a defensively handicapped team to fairly good defensive team. With Williams running the point, the Jazz will always be competant offensively- just like Paul turns the Hornets into a respectable offensive team.

The Jazz could have gotten this type of player in return for Boozer, but not anymore.

[MarkGrace]

I don't disagree much with Grace on Jazz related stuff, but on this one he is dead wrong. Put a healthy Chandler in Boozer's place and the Jazz are probably a 2-4 seed and would have a realistic shot at playing in the WF finals.

Which doesn't necessarily mean they'd compete more for a championship. They still wouldn't be good enough.

[MarkGrace]

With a starting 5 of Brewer, Williams, Chandler, Kirilenko and Millsap, the Jazz go from a defensively handicapped team to fairly good defensive team.

Agree.

With Williams running the point, the Jazz will always be competant offensively- just like Paul turns the Hornets into a respectable offensive team.

Paul, at a minimum, has another go-to scorer to work with. That Jazz lineup above would be bar-none the worst offensive playoff team in the West (including Houston sans McGrady). And I'd bet my left nut they'd finish last in the playoffs in offensive efficiency. The defense would be great, but you're still not going anywhere.

The Jazz absolutely need to get better defensively, I have no doubt about that. And Chanlder is just the type they need: great on the glass, good defender, long and athletic, can catch and finish wide open shots around the hoops, etc. But, the trick (at least in my mind) is that they have to maintain close to the same level of output on offense.

If the last two years in the playoffs have shown anything, it's that the Jazz have exactly one go-to scorer once the intensity of the playoffs rachets up. One guy you can throw the ball two and say "get us points" when the other team is scheming to spefically take your stuff away. That's just not good enough to get it done, no matter how much you improve your D.

Two years ago in the WCF, not only was it obvious that the Jazz needed to get better on defense, but it also became apparent that they might need a third legitimate scorer (Boozer was a great second option that year). Look at your contenders, they all have a big two plus a third guy who is a nice scoring complement (though I would entertain arguments that Cleveland doesn't, but they also have the best player in the league). In the playoffs the last two years, Memo, AK, Brewer, et al, can score some garbage stuff, but none of them is going to carry any real offensive weight. Throw Chandler in the mix and you've got another in that same mold. It's yet to be determined what Sap would do, but even when he was starting once teams had time to account for him and throw double teams he looked rather ineffective.

IDK, the Jazz have several problems, and when you try and fill one hole, you seem to open another. If could make one move, as much as it pains me, I would take Memo out of the equation in favor of a traditional C. Of course I hate Boozer as much as the next Jazz fan, and his playoff performance last year was dismal, but he's played great in the playoffs before, and outside of Deron, he's the only thing on the Jazz roster that even faintly resembles a go-to scorer. Deron, Brewer, AK, Booz, Chandler beats Deron, Brew, AK, Sap and Chandler if you ask me. The first team still has major issues (would you even guard them outside of the paint?), but with that second group you lose more in offense than you gain in defense. Some how, some way, they have to stay a great offensive team and still improve their defense. It would take more than one personnel change to pull that off.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

[QUOTE

IDK, the Jazz have several problems, and when you try and fill one hole, you seem to open another. If could make one move, as much as it pains me, I would take Memo out of the equation in favor of a traditional C. Of course I hate Boozer as much as the next Jazz fan, and his playoff performance last year was dismal, but he's played great in the playoffs before, and outside of Deron, he's the only thing on the Jazz roster that even faintly resembles a go-to scorer. Deron, Brewer, AK, Booz, Chandler beats Deron, Brew, AK, Sap and Chandler if you ask me. The first team still has major issues (would you even guard them outside of the paint?), but with that second group you lose more in offense than you gain in defense. Some how, some way, they have to stay a great offensive team and still improve their defense. It would take more than one personnel change to pull that off.[/QUOTE]

I think Millsap gives rebounding and defensive advantages to the Jazz but doesn't currently have the offensive game that Boozer has. Boozer has a jumpshot, Millsap doesn't. But Millsap is also significantly more athletic so he's much better guy to grab an offensive rebound and put back the ball. The real question is whether Millsap, Chandler, Deron, Brewer and AK beats the current lineup and I think it does.

But I also see what you're saying about the Jazz needing a legit 2nd banana. I'm of the opinion that Paul makes David West the 2nd banana that he is and I think Deron Williams does something similar for Boozer. The ideal situation would have been moving Okur/AK for someone respectable to play the 5. But I don't think that could be done because Okur doesn't represent enough value and AK has a horrible contract. I'm of the opinion that having an oaf like Ostertag would have been preferable to having Okur play center. DWill is a better scorer than Stockton, Boozer is not as good of defender as Malone, but I think the other players on the team- AK, Brewer, Millsap were better than the respective 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. players on the Jazz's WC champion teams.

I'm rambling on, but clearly the Jazz needed someone on the front line who could offer a defensive presence before they were ever going to compete for a championship.

[smokymountainrain]

Which doesn't necessarily mean they'd compete more for a championship. They still wouldn't be good enough.

I can't disagree with that.

[Donuthole]

Boozer has a jumpshot, Millsap doesn't.

Not really true. Millsap's Efg on jumpers this year (.362) was only slightly worse than Boozer's (.384).

[smokymountainrain]

Not really true. Millsap's Efg on jumpers this year (.362) was only slightly worse than Boozer's (.384).

Yet Boozer doesn't hesitate to fire up jump shot after jump shot.

[TripletDaddy]

Yet Boozer doesn't hesitate to fire up jump shot after jump shot.

This is merely an observation because all that matters is that they go in, but Boozer has a freaky release on his shot. For a split second, the ball is behind his head and it looks like he is going to heave it up with both hands.

[Donuthole]

This is merely an observation because all that matters is that they go in, but Boozer has a freaky release on his shot. For a split second, the ball is behind his head and it looks like he is going to heave it up with both hands.

It is one of the reasons he is unable to get more consistency with the results both in live play as well as at the FT line. His release leaves much less room for error than a traditional jump shot, not to mention doesn't generate the traditional backspin required to get any "shooter's touch" bounces on the rim. I think I read somewhere that his father taught him to shoot like that to avoid being blocked. Kind of funny (and probably even ironic!) since Boozer might be the 'most blocked' player on the entire Jazz roster.