Mariners

[Green Monstah]

If anytying ou should be unimpressed by how infrequently he got on base (always the big knock on him) for a leadoff hitter, not the way he got on base. That's dumb.

I'm not sure I agree. Walk<Infield single<outfield single<xbh.

Ichiro is not underrated. He had some great seasons in the early 2000s and 2007. He was not and is not horribly valuable in today's game, IMO. the listless, effeminate swing; the low OBP (particularly when compared against his BA). Dude could definitely swipe bags and play some outfield though. I was always more impressed with him defensively.

[falafel]

I'm not sure I agree. Walk<Infield single<outfield single<xbh.

Ichiro is not underrated. He had some great seasons in the early 2000s and 2007. He was not and is not horribly valuable in today's game, IMO. the listless, effeminate swing; the low OBP (particularly when compared against his BA). Dude could definitely swipe bags and play some outfield though. I was always more impressed with him defensively.

What does it matter what his swing looks like?

[MarkGrace]

What does it matter what his swing looks like?

Nothing. It's a silly comment.

[MarkGrace]

I'm not sure I agree. Walk<Infield single<outfield single<xbh.

Without any greater context this sequencing is just dumb (other than the last one, of course).

[MarkGrace]

Ben Gibbard releases Ichiro's Theme.
http://consequenceofsound.net/2012/0...ichiros-theme/

Sounds like the Beach Boys.

[Green Monstah]

Without any greater context this sequencing is just dumb (other than the last one, of course).

It's not. Think it over. Admittedly, on his first at bat/game the sequence is less important, but that accounts for only 1/4 -1/5 of his nightly ABs.

[Green Monstah]

What does it matter what his swing looks like?

Well, look at the type of hits it produced...

[MarkGrace]

It's not. Think it over. Admittedly, on his first at bat/game the sequence is less important, but that accounts for only 1/4 -1/5 of his nightly ABs.

It's not less important in the first AB, it's entirely unimportant (again, excluding xbh's, of course). Could be in subsequent AB's as well. Hence my use of "without any greater context." As a blanket statement it's a dumb conclusion.

[MarkGrace]

Well, look at the type of hits it produced...

Well, look at the volume of hits it produced...

If you want to argue that he didn't get on base enough for a leadoff guy of his statute or his obp was too tied to avg, that's fine, I already gave you that one to start off. If you want to argue anything about his swing in relation to hits, you're going to lose.

[Green Monstah]

Well, look at the volume of hits it produced...

If you want to argue that he didn't get on base enough for a leadoff guy of his statute or his obp was too tied to avg, that's fine, I already gave you that one to start off. If you want to argue anything about his swing in relation to hits, you're going to lose.

You've never experienced a non-productive hit? It's never crossed your mind that a hit can be almost meaningless?

Maybe I'm just a victim of the steroid era and my love of OPS, but offensively, I never watched the Ms play and said, "Man, Ichiro is incredible." Great baserunner, great defender. Probably a HOFer if steroids weren't a factor; because they are, he's likely a shoo-in, since so many superstars are blackballed.

[MarkGrace]

You've never experienced a non-productive hit? It's never crossed your mind that a hit can be almost meaningless?

This may have topped your last comment in the silliness department.

Maybe I'm just a victim of the steroid era and my love of OPS, but offensively, I never watched the Ms play and said, "Man, Ichiro is incredible." Great baserunner, great defender. Probably a HOFer if steroids weren't a factor; because they are, he's likely a shoo-in, since so many superstars are blackballed.

For all your love of OPS, why you're trying to give importance to the sequencing of the type of hits/walks sure makes little sense (again, other than the xbh's).

[Green Monstah]

You're right man. Look at how awesome the Mariners have been in the Ichiro era.....

[MarkGrace]

You're right man. Look at how awesome the Mariners have been in the Ichiro era.....

Great point.

[Green Monstah]

Great point.

Haha.

You're right (or whoever made the point below) that if Ichiro had played in NY, Boston, St. Louis, or almost anywhere else where the management knew what the heck they were doing, Ichiro would go down as an all-time great. I think he's a great baserunner, defender, and infield singler, FWIW.

[MarkGrace]

Haha.

You're right (or whoever made the point below) that if Ichiro had played in NY, Boston, St. Louis, or almost anywhere else where the management knew what the heck they were doing, Ichiro would go down as an all-time great. I think he's a great baserunner, defender, and infield singler, FWIW.

He already will go down as an all-time great. But I agree that his stature would be greater if we played for a larger market/winner (same with Felix). Of course that doesn't have anything to do with what we've been discussing in the last few exchanges...