Jimmer's development at BYU

[Borg]

What do you think of the way Rose developed and utilized Jimmer during his stint at BYU?

Pro's - obviously, Coach Rose helped turn Jimmer into a national sensation, Jimmermania, and the National Player of the Year. Amazing.

...but, at what cost?

Con's - Jimmer is getting roasted for his "non-defensive" nature and abilities. Now, don't get me wrong, Obviously, Jimmer can play defense...but, Coach Rose admits that "there is only so much energy one can expend in a game...and we need Jimmer to expend that energy on offense".

Thus, Coach Rose shielded and protected Jimmer on defense. So, while Jimmer dazzled on offense...did Coach Rose sacrifice perhaps Jimmer's long term interests of being selected higher in the NBA draft, and creating a perception that Jimmer can't play defense...thus damaging his overall game?

Personally, I think Jimmer will be just fine. I didn't hear anything about his poor defense when he was playing in the USA Select this past summer. But, Jimmer gets hammered so badly for his D...and I think it is a bit unfair.

[Donuthole]

What do you think of the way Rose developed and utilized Jimmer during his stint at BYU?

Pro's - obviously, Coach Rose helped turn Jimmer into a national sensation, Jimmermania, and the National Player of the Year. Amazing.

...but, at what cost?

Con's - Jimmer is getting roasted for his "non-defensive" nature and abilities. Now, don't get me wrong, Obviously, Jimmer can play defense...but, Coach Rose admits that "there is only so much energy one can expend in a game...and we need Jimmer to expend that energy on offense".

Thus, Coach Rose shielded and protected Jimmer on defense. So, while Jimmer dazzled on offense...did Coach Rose sacrifice perhaps Jimmer's long term interests of being selected higher in the NBA draft, and creating a perception that Jimmer can't play defense...thus damaging his overall game?

Personally, I think Jimmer will be just fine. I didn't hear anything about his poor defense when he was playing in the USA Select this past summer. But, Jimmer gets hammered so badly for his D...and I think it is a bit unfair.

If Jimmer doesn't get the green light on offense, he never becomes a national sensation, and he's still being plugged as a late-first or early-second round pick.

Let Jimmer pick:

1) late-first or early-second round pick, but nobody is overly critical of your defense because, after all, you're a late-first or early-second round pick; OR

2) lottery pick, but the reason you're not a top 5 pick is because you have been labeled as a terrible defender. Men want to be you, women want to be with you, you're going to make millions, but you're labeled a terrible defender. And if you show even a modicum of defensive ability at any time during your career, people will be surprised that you're a better defender than advertised.

I think I know which one Jimmer chooses.

[Goatnapper'96]

What do you think of the way Rose developed and utilized Jimmer during his stint at BYU?

Pro's - obviously, Coach Rose helped turn Jimmer into a national sensation, Jimmermania, and the National Player of the Year. Amazing.

...but, at what cost?

Con's - Jimmer is getting roasted for his "non-defensive" nature and abilities. Now, don't get me wrong, Obviously, Jimmer can play defense...but, Coach Rose admits that "there is only so much energy one can expend in a game...and we need Jimmer to expend that energy on offense".

Thus, Coach Rose shielded and protected Jimmer on defense. So, while Jimmer dazzled on offense...did Coach Rose sacrifice perhaps Jimmer's long term interests of being selected higher in the NBA draft, and creating a perception that Jimmer can't play defense...thus damaging his overall game?

Personally, I think Jimmer will be just fine. I didn't hear anything about his poor defense when he was playing in the USA Select this past summer. But, Jimmer gets hammered so badly for his D...and I think it is a bit unfair.

I don't know about the cost but one of the benefits was that there were times Dave Rose and Jimmer allowed me to view Tawny Peaks as a 12 year old Beehive carpenter's dream!

[Flystripper]

What do you think of the way Rose developed and utilized Jimmer during his stint at BYU?

Pro's - obviously, Coach Rose helped turn Jimmer into a national sensation, Jimmermania, and the National Player of the Year. Amazing.

...but, at what cost?

Con's - Jimmer is getting roasted for his "non-defensive" nature and abilities. Now, don't get me wrong, Obviously, Jimmer can play defense...but, Coach Rose admits that "there is only so much energy one can expend in a game...and we need Jimmer to expend that energy on offense".

Thus, Coach Rose shielded and protected Jimmer on defense. So, while Jimmer dazzled on offense...did Coach Rose sacrifice perhaps Jimmer's long term interests of being selected higher in the NBA draft, and creating a perception that Jimmer can't play defense...thus damaging his overall game?

Personally, I think Jimmer will be just fine. I didn't hear anything about his poor defense when he was playing in the USA Select this past summer. But, Jimmer gets hammered so badly for his D...and I think it is a bit unfair.

define hammered so badly

When citing pros and cons "draft experts" talk about his ability to defend as a con and not not his defensive skill level. Does Jimmer lack in defensive skill? Possibly, but defensive skill does not impact ones draft status. The ability to defend (read athleticism, quickness and agility) does. Jimmer's ability to defend would not have been impacted one way or the other if Rose utilized him differently.

[MarkGrace]

Agree with both Donut and Flystripper.

[pellegrino]

Agree with both Donut and Flystripper.

Dunno, I thought 'Napper had a good point too.

[jay santos]

What do you think of the way Rose developed and utilized Jimmer during his stint at BYU?

Pro's - obviously, Coach Rose helped turn Jimmer into a national sensation, Jimmermania, and the National Player of the Year. Amazing.

...but, at what cost?

Con's - Jimmer is getting roasted for his "non-defensive" nature and abilities. Now, don't get me wrong, Obviously, Jimmer can play defense...but, Coach Rose admits that "there is only so much energy one can expend in a game...and we need Jimmer to expend that energy on offense".

Thus, Coach Rose shielded and protected Jimmer on defense. So, while Jimmer dazzled on offense...did Coach Rose sacrifice perhaps Jimmer's long term interests of being selected higher in the NBA draft, and creating a perception that Jimmer can't play defense...thus damaging his overall game?

Personally, I think Jimmer will be just fine. I didn't hear anything about his poor defense when he was playing in the USA Select this past summer. But, Jimmer gets hammered so badly for his D...and I think it is a bit unfair.

Jimmer's lack of defensive ability is not due to his role on the team, it's due to his lack of athleticism. He wouldn't be known as a better defender playing 30 minutes a game at the two guard. He might be better in a given game, but he wouldn't be better in the NBA next year. Scouts aren't dumb. They know this. Rose/Rice blaming it on his role is mostly them just running interference for their guy. They know it's BS.

When he was playing on the USA Select team he was an early second round guy. Jimmer deserves all the credit for becoming the player he is. Rose/Rice deserve a lot of credit for maximizing the team output based on who they had in Jimmer.

[cougjunkie]

D-holes post is spot on.

[SoCalCoug]

ecuaboy ruined my thread about Jimmer's defense on CB (yeah, I know, what else should I expect over there). I should have posted this first here, but I have some definite thoughts on Jimmer and defense following the combine:

I, for one, think Jimmer answered the questions at the combine about whether he'll be able to play defense in the NBA at the point guard position.

He nailed the agility drill, scoring right at the top of the entire combine. I don't think that was expected, and I think that's what Jimmer was hinting at when he said he expected the scouts would be surprised with his performance in the drills.

I found a description of the agility drill:

"Agility
Lane Agility Drill
Agility is very important in basketball, and is measured using the lane agility test at the NBA camp. The Lane Agility test measures how fast a player moves laterally around the key. See more about the lane agility test."

http://www.topendsports.com/sport/ba...-nba-draft.htm

What part of the game of basketball most requires the ability to move laterally around the key? Do I really need to answer it? (Defense) I don't think the talking heads on the combine coverage had the drill results, as it went on, so of course they didn't factor this into their discussion.

Of the point guards at the combine who took part in the combine, only Norris Cole (and Andrew Goudelock in the non-"modified" agility drill, I don't know the difference) beat Jimmer in the agility drill.

The knock in Jimmer has been that he didn't play defense. The question has been, does he have the athletic ability to do so? I think he answered that question very resoundingly. In fact, I believe that drill was the most significant part of the entire combine for Jimmer, because that is the biggest question that's plaguing him right now. And I think he completely blew the doubters out of the water.

Do you know what the super athletic John Wall got in the agility drill last year? 10.84. Assuming they set up the cones the same way between the two years, Jimmer (10.42) compares well. For reference's sake, Wall had the quickest time last year, but the next three were at 10.87, 10.88, and 10.89, not far behind.

There's no reason Jimmer can't succeed, even excel in the NBA as a point guard. His range is unparallelled, we know he has the energy and drive, and apparently, he really does have the athleticism.

Sorry, Jazz fans, but I don't think Jimmer's going to be there at #12, now. I may be proven wrong, but I think Jimmer nailed the combine in the exact way he needed to.

[KillerDog]

Jimmer has been knocked for lack of athleticism and length more than lack of defensive ability. The only way Rose could have remedied that would involve genetic engineering because Jimmer's measureable athleticism is more than adequate based on his combine results. On the subject of lack of defense, I think Jimmer did what he needed to in an effort to help the team. That said, I also think the criticism is a result of the lack of holes in his offense. No scout in his right mind would criticize his offense so you have to criticize his D.

[TripletDaddy]

If Jimmer doesnt develop his offensive game, there is no Jimmermania. And if there is no Jimmermania, he doesn't get to go American League with Whitney Wonnacott.

[jay santos]

ecuaboy ruined my thread about Jimmer's defense on CB (yeah, I know, what else should I expect over there). I should have posted this first here, but I have some definite thoughts on Jimmer and defense following the combine:

I, for one, think Jimmer answered the questions at the combine about whether he'll be able to play defense in the NBA at the point guard position.

He nailed the agility drill, scoring right at the top of the entire combine. I don't think that was expected, and I think that's what Jimmer was hinting at when he said he expected the scouts would be surprised with his performance in the drills.

I found a description of the agility drill:

"Agility
Lane Agility Drill
Agility is very important in basketball, and is measured using the lane agility test at the NBA camp. The Lane Agility test measures how fast a player moves laterally around the key. See more about the lane agility test."

http://www.topendsports.com/sport/ba...-nba-draft.htm

What part of the game of basketball most requires the ability to move laterally around the key? Do I really need to answer it? (Defense) I don't think the talking heads on the combine coverage had the drill results, as it went on, so of course they didn't factor this into their discussion.

Of the point guards at the combine who took part in the combine, only Norris Cole (and Andrew Goudelock in the non-"modified" agility drill, I don't know the difference) beat Jimmer in the agility drill.

The knock in Jimmer has been that he didn't play defense. The question has been, does he have the athletic ability to do so? I think he answered that question very resoundingly. In fact, I believe that drill was the most significant part of the entire combine for Jimmer, because that is the biggest question that's plaguing him right now. And I think he completely blew the doubters out of the water.

Do you know what the super athletic John Wall got in the agility drill last year? 10.84. Assuming they set up the cones the same way between the two years, Jimmer (10.42) compares well. For reference's sake, Wall had the quickest time last year, but the next three were at 10.87, 10.88, and 10.89, not far behind.

There's no reason Jimmer can't succeed, even excel in the NBA as a point guard. His range is unparallelled, we know he has the energy and drive, and apparently, he really does have the athleticism.

Sorry, Jazz fans, but I don't think Jimmer's going to be there at #12, now. I may be proven wrong, but I think Jimmer nailed the combine in the exact way he needed to.

I saw that agility drill time last week and it surprised me, frankly. I don't know how exactly the test goes, but it doesn't change my opinion of Jimmer's ability to defend quick guards. I watched him for four years. He's worked hard on his body the last year and it's showing, but I'm just not sure I buy this. He's always been a defensive liability. He's never been able to shuffle his feet and keep quick guards in front of him.

[Jacob]

Jimmer still would have been the same sensation if he has gotten 2 minutes of rest per half and he would have been able to play a little defense at the end of the year. It was at the end of the year that Jimmer's refusal to pretend to play D became apparent. if he got any rest, I think he wouldn't have looked so bad in that regard. I always thought Rose should have given him just a couple minutes of rest.

[Commando]

Um.. Jimmer does what he wants to do. I saw him play some pretty lockdown D when he was frustrated with the team's defense during the second NM loss this year.

[MarkGrace]

I saw that agility drill time last week and it surprised me, frankly. I don't know how exactly the test goes, but it doesn't change my opinion of Jimmer's ability to defend quick guards.

Same. Since SoCal is reposting, I guess I'll repost my response:

The lane agility drill *attempts* to measure lateral quickness. Whether or it does or not (at least half of the drill doesn't involve lateral movement) and how what it does measure translates into playing defense in a basketball setting (since the biggest part of playing defense is the initial reactionary burst) are entirely different questions. I'm glad Jimmer did well with it (better to do well than to do poorly, for sure), but it doesn't answer any questions about his ability to play defense at the NBA level. We won't know if he can until he gets out there and does it.

Everyone is having a good old time on CB talking about how this proves Jimmer has comparable quickness to guys like DWill, CP3 and Rose. In my mind it's just another nail in the coffin regarding how much the athletic testing at the combine really means.