Davies doesn't matter as much as you think

[SoCalCoug]

I think losing Davies was significant, but I also think the loss was magnified in the MWC tournament.

With not one, but two 6-9, 235 guys sitting on the bench (Davies and Collinsworth), both former starters, our depth took a huge hit. But the later you get in the season, the lesser the impact of a loss of depth.

I think the MWC finals against SDSU was the single game where our lack of depth in the frontcourt was magnified the most. Lack of depth hurts when you're playing 6 guys 3 nights in a row. That's not going to happen again.

Also, SDSU has as athletic a group of frontcourt players as anyone in the country. In addition, they may be the only team with enough big, athletic guys who can guard Jimmer, which has proven to be the type of player that gives him the most trouble.

So, their strengths countered not only BYU's weakness (lack of front-court depth in a third game in three nights), but it also served to help counter BYU's biggest strength, which is Jimmer. Also, one of BYU's biggest strengths, which is Jackson's defense on the opponent's best guard, wasn't really a factor with SDSU, as their big men are their best players.

Finally, SDSU played out of their minds - they were really on yesterday, and you can tell they'd been looking at this game for a while now. I listened to a San Diego sports station all week. Going into the tournament, the biggest topic by far was the goal of beating BYU. They wanted that game BAD.

Throw in the perceived unwillingness of the MWC refs to call fouls against Jimmer, and you may even be able to say that the NCAA games should be officiated a little more evenly.

It's a credit to how good BYU was with Davies that they were able to beat SDSU twice by double digits, when SDSU matches up so well against them in the first place.

The scenario that happened yesterday simply is not going to be repeated in the NCAA tournament. So pointing to yesterday's game against SDSU as an indication of how good BYU is, or how they will fare in the NCAA tournament, is simply not reasonable. They might face an opponent after the first week who matches up well with them, but they're not going face that same perfect storm in the NCAA tournament.

This is a long-winded way of saying, Jay, you're way off base. BYU's still a top-10 team without Davies. They were a top-2 team with him. Isn't it going to suck that you weren't able to enjoy the tournament run this year because you were too busy being a pessimist?

[SeattleUte]

Santos, this thread shows that most BYU fans would rather feel good than be right or know the truth. Of course self-delusion is very ingrained from birth. As you see, even Viking is hooked on it.

I only relayed what ESPN talking heads said, and did you see them jump on me? Slew the messenger. ER resorted to the nonsense stat of point margin. Truly, if you're being really and truly honest with yourselfves, who wasn't disappointed at BYU's struggles against Wyoming, TCU and New Mexico (as we saw yesterday, third time's a charm, even if it does require a career game from Jimmer to edge New Mexico)? I didn't even highlight that the two blow outs were at the MC and on a neutral court, and the struggles against bad teams were at home, and twice on a neutral court.

The outrcy here as soon as Davies was announced banished shows that everyone instinctively knew this was terrible for the team.

When BYU disappoints, as it surely will, BYU fans are going to have to decide: whether the LDS church martyred the basketball team or BYU was just a slightly more upmarket Utah State. Were I a BYU fan I know which version of history I would prefer.

[Donuthole]

Santos, this thread shows that most BYU fans would rather feel good than be right or know the truth. Of course self-delusion is very ingrained from birth. As you see, even Viking is hooked on it.

I only relayed what ESPN talking heads said, and did you see them jump on me? Slew the messenger. ER resorted to the nonsense stat of point margin.

No, he did not, but thanks for skimming, anyway.

[Blueintheface]

Santos, this thread shows that most BYU fans would rather feel good than be right or know the truth. Of course self-delusion is very ingrained from birth. As you see, even Viking is hooked on it.

I only relayed what ESPN talking heads said, and did you see them jump on me? Slew the messenger. ER resorted to the nonsense stat of point margin. Truly, if you're being really and truly honest with yourselfves, who wasn't disappointed at BYU's struggles against Wyoming, TCU and New Mexico (as we saw yesterday, third time's a charm, even if it does require a career game from Jimmer to edge New Mexico)? I didn't even highlight that the two blow outs were at the MC and on a neutral court, and the struggles against bad teams were at home, and twice on a neutral court.

The outrcy here as soon as Davies was announced banished shows that everyone instinctively knew this was terrible for the team.

When BYU disappoints, as it surely will, BYU fans are going to have to decide: whether the LDS church martyred the basketball team or BYU was just a slightly more upmarket Utah State. Were I a BYU fan I know which version of history I would prefer.

You are hopeless. When will you finally admit to knowing zilch about sports? I'm sure it will be before you ever admit your frustration stems from your resentment for the church. You are beyond feeling pity for.

[SeattleUte]

You are hopeless. When will you finally admit to knowing zilch about sports? I'm sure it will be before you ever admit your frustration stems from your resentment for the church. You are beyond feeling pity for.

yeah, that's a really substantive analysis absent ad hominem attacks.

So you think Davies' absense doesn't matter? If so, I declare you a basketball moron. A basketball idiot.

BTW, remind me when you've said anything at all substantive about basketball (or anything else here) here. I can't think of a time.

The truth is, I struggle at football, but I bet I am a lot more savvy about basketball than you or most anyone here is (except U-ute and a few others).

[jay santos]

Isn't it going to suck that you weren't able to enjoy the tournament run this year because you were too busy being a pessimist?

I don't see the need for this. This is just banter. You don't see me posting anything remotely negative during a game.

And further I'm really not a pessimist. I didn't expect us to get blown out by either UNM or SDSU.

[oxcoug]

I'm impressed and somewhat baffled that this thread has gone on as long as it has.

Is anyone actually arguing that we're not significantly worse off w/o Davies?

If so - step back for a second from the question of Brandon Davies AS Brandon Davies and consider:

Number of players BYU had on the roster that forced opposing teams to commit some size to defending the low post - one.

Number of players BYU had on the roster with the athleticism, length and bulk to defend athletic bigs - one.

The answer to both of those questions is now zero.

It doesn't matter if his name is Brandon Davies or Sketch McGee, teams that want to compete consistently (as opposed to erratically with hot outside shooting) against elite teams, need at least someone who can do those two things. BYU now has neither.

I could see this argument making sense if the second name was Chris Collinsworth, not Noah Hartsock, because Collinsworth actually does those things. But Hartsock doesn't.

[New Mexican Disaster]

I'm impressed and somewhat baffled that this thread has gone on as long as it has.

Is anyone actually arguing that we're not significantly worse off w/o Davies?

If so - step back for a second from the question of Brandon Davies AS Brandon Davies and consider:

Number of players BYU had on the roster that forced opposing teams to commit some size to defending the low post - one.

Number of players BYU had on the roster with the athleticism, length and bulk to defend athletic bigs - one.

The answer to both of those questions is now zero.

It doesn't matter if his name is Brandon Davies or Sketch McGee, teams that want to compete consistently (as opposed to erratically with hot outside shooting) against elite teams, need at least someone who can do those two things. BYU now has neither.

I could see this argument making sense if the second name was Chris Collinsworth, not Noah Hartsock, because Collinsworth actually does those things. But Hartsock doesn't.

True. And what a crying shame.

[Blueintheface]

yeah, that's a really substantive analysis absent ad hominem attacks.

So you think Davies' absense doesn't matter? If so, I declare you a basketball moron. A basketball idiot.

BTW, remind me when you've said anything at all substantive about basketball (or anything else here) here. I can't think of a time.

The truth is, I struggle at football, but I bet I am a lot more savvy about basketball than you or most anyone here is (except U-ute and a few others).

Oh I almost forgot to mention how much I enjoyed your attempt at solidarity wth Santos. Classic SU. Bravo.

[TripletDaddy]

Santos, this thread shows that most fans would rather feel good than be right or know the truth. Of course self-delusion is very ingrained from birth.

http://www.cougaruteforum.com/showthread.php?t=37259

[SeattleUte]

I'm impressed and somewhat baffled that this thread has gone on as long as it has.

Is anyone actually arguing that we're not significantly worse off w/o Davies?

If so - step back for a second from the question of Brandon Davies AS Brandon Davies and consider:

Number of players BYU had on the roster that forced opposing teams to commit some size to defending the low post - one.

Number of players BYU had on the roster with the athleticism, length and bulk to defend athletic bigs - one.

The answer to both of those questions is now zero.

It doesn't matter if his name is Brandon Davies or Sketch McGee, teams that want to compete consistently (as opposed to erratically with hot outside shooting) against elite teams, need at least someone who can do those two things. BYU now has neither.

I could see this argument making sense if the second name was Chris Collinsworth, not Noah Hartsock, because Collinsworth actually does those things. But Hartsock doesn't.

As you see, many here including self identified basketball experts such as Blueintheface and Viking think losing Davies doesn't matter.

[Blueintheface]

I'm impressed and somewhat baffled that this thread has gone on as long as it has.

Is anyone actually arguing that we're not significantly worse off w/o Davies?

If so - step back for a second from the question of Brandon Davies AS Brandon Davies and consider:

Number of players BYU had on the roster that forced opposing teams to commit some size to defending the low post - one.

Number of players BYU had on the roster with the athleticism, length and bulk to defend athletic bigs - one.

The answer to both of those questions is now zero.

It doesn't matter if his name is Brandon Davies or Sketch McGee, teams that want to compete consistently (as opposed to erratically with hot outside shooting) against elite teams, need at least someone who can do those two things. BYU now has neither.

I could see this argument making sense if the second name was Chris Collinsworth, not Noah Hartsock, because Collinsworth actually does those things. But Hartsock doesn't.

No one should be arguing the point since we're quite obviously worse without him, brave attempts to 'prove' otherwise notwithstanding. This thread has devolved into yet another thread for doubters and haters to impotently throw jabs at BYU.

[Blueintheface]

As you see, many here including self identified basketball experts such as Blueintheface and Viking think losing Davies doesn't matter.

You have reading comprehension problems, but we all knew that anger maakes one blind.

[SeattleUte]

WE'RE A MAJOR. WE AREN'T A WCC SCHOOL. WE WILL HIRE A SATISFACTORY COACH. IF YOU THINK OTHERWISE YOU ARE YOURSELF SELF-DELUSIONAL.

[Jeff Lebowski]

You are hopeless. When will you finally admit to knowing zilch about sports? I'm sure it will be before you ever admit your frustration stems from your resentment for the church. You are beyond feeling pity for.

This reminds me of when I took one of my boys to Washington, D.C. with me on a business trip when he was seven years old. We visited one of the art museums on the mall and I was excitedly explaining the history and significance of one of the pieces and my son looked at me and said "Dad, let's go back to the hotel and order pizza again."

SU is weaving a tapestry for the ages today and it is going right over your head. Such a pity.