BYU moves up to #9 in Coaches Poll

[TheBYUGuy]

http://www.cougarboard.com/board/mes...tml?id=2545435

http://www.cougarboard.com/board/mes...tml?id=1810001

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Indy, it's time to drop the Mormon persecution complex already. RPI correlation with seeding is a figment of your pioneer heritage imagination.

[Indy Coug]

Indy, it's time to drop the Mormon persecution complex already. RPI correlation with seeding is a figment of your pioneer heritage imagination.

You can see I haven't posted updates to this in quite a long time...

[SoCalCoug]

Okay, since my point has been lost, apparently, here it is.

I think the cynicism about how BYU is treated by the NCAA tournament committee (and how they will be treated this year) is largely a product of some sort of persecution complex. Considering how BYU has done in the tournament in recent years, I don't know that you can really argue that their seedings have been inappropriate.

in 2007, #8 BYU lost to #9 Xavier 79-77. Nothing in the result indicates they were deserving of a higher seed.

In 2008, #8 BYU lost to #9 Texas A & M 67-62. Nothing there indicates they were deserving of a higher seed.

In 2009, #8 BYU lost to #9 Texas A & M 79-66. Nothing there indicates they were unfairly seeded.

In 2010, #7 BYU beat #10 Florida 99-92 in 2OT. They then lost to #2 Kansas State 84-72. What was unfair about that seeding?

Had BYU demonstrated that they were better than their seeds, then I'm sure the perception would be different. But it seems pretty clear to me that BYU's tournament performance is the root of any perceived bias against BYU. If their RPI has been higher than their seeding indicates, maybe the RPI is off.

You don't complain about only being given an 8 seed and then go and lose to the 9 seed.

Further, there's nothing in reality to indicate that a BYU with a top-8 RPI would still be given a seed of 6 or below, as the fear seems to be.

[CardiacCoug]

Okay, since my point has been lost, apparently, here it is.

I think the cynicism about how BYU is treated by the NCAA tournament committee (and how they will be treated this year) is largely a product of some sort of persecution complex. Considering how BYU has done in the tournament in recent years, I don't know that you can really argue that their seedings have been inappropriate.

in 2007, #8 BYU lost to #9 Xavier 79-77. Nothing in the result indicates they were deserving of a higher seed.

In 2008, #8 BYU lost to #9 Texas A & M 67-62. Nothing there indicates they were deserving of a higher seed.

In 2009, #8 BYU lost to #9 Texas A & M 79-66. Nothing there indicates they were unfairly seeded.

In 2010, #7 BYU beat #10 Florida 99-92 in 2OT. They then lost to #2 Kansas State 84-72. What was unfair about that seeding?

Had BYU demonstrated that they were better than their seeds, then I'm sure the perception would be different. But it seems pretty clear to me that BYU's tournament performance is the root of any perceived bias against BYU. If their RPI has been higher than their seeding indicates, maybe the RPI is off.

You don't complain about only being given an 8 seed and then go and lose to the 9 seed.

Further, there's nothing in reality to indicate that a BYU with a top-8 RPI would still be given a seed of 6 or below, as the fear seems to be.

Agreed. Good post. Gonzaga had to break through a few times as a lower seed before they started getting more respect in seeding.

I would be happy enough with a 4 or 5 seed. If you can't advance to the Sweet 16 with that kind of seed, then so be it. The 7 through 10 seeds suck because you have to beat an awesome team to make it to the second week.

[SoCalCoug]

I would be happy enough with a 4 or 5 seed. If you can't advance to the Sweet 16 with that kind of seed, then so be it. The 7 through 10 seeds suck because you have to beat an awesome team to make it to the second week.

And unless you win your first round game, you can't really argue that you deserve a chance to even complain about having to play a really good team in the second round.

I think this year we'll see the benefit of winning the first round last year, and BYU will be less screwed than ever in our tournament seeding!

[Indy Coug]

Agreed. Good post. Gonzaga had to break through a few times as a lower seed before they started getting more respect in seeding.

Gonzaga's alleged seeding respect is a myth.

[CardiacCoug]

And unless you win your first round game, you can't really argue that you deserve to chance to even complain about having to play a really good team in the second round.

Agreed. And really most 8-9 matchups could have pretty easily been 6-11 matchups with just a few different bounces for each team during the season. Florida probably deserved an 11 or 12 seed at most last season and BYU just barely pulled it out.

[CardiacCoug]

Gonzaga's alleged seeding respect is a myth.

I would be interested in the stats on that. I'm not talking about an expected seed based on RPI or anything.

All I'm saying is that they won 3 years in a row as a lower seed: as a 10 seed a few years and then as a 12 seed. Eventually they earned enough respect to get a top 4 seed if they had a year that warranted it.

[Donuthole]

I would be interested in the stats on that. I'm not talking about an expected seed based on RPI or anything.

All I'm saying is that they won 3 years in a row as a lower seed: as a 10 seed a few years and then as a 12 seed. Eventually they earned enough respect to get a top 4 seed if they had a year that warranted it.

And they promptly lost to Wyoming.

[TheBYUGuy]

Okay, since my point has been lost, apparently, here it is.

I think the cynicism about how BYU is treated by the NCAA tournament committee (and how they will be treated this year) is largely a product of some sort of persecution complex. Considering how BYU has done in the tournament in recent years, I don't know that you can really argue that their seedings have been inappropriate.

in 2007, #8 BYU lost to #9 Xavier 79-77. Nothing in the result indicates they were deserving of a higher seed.

In 2008, #8 BYU lost to #9 Texas A & M 67-62. Nothing there indicates they were deserving of a higher seed.

In 2009, #8 BYU lost to #9 Texas A & M 79-66. Nothing there indicates they were unfairly seeded.

In 2010, #7 BYU beat #10 Florida 99-92 in 2OT. They then lost to #2 Kansas State 84-72. What was unfair about that seeding?

Had BYU demonstrated that they were better than their seeds, then I'm sure the perception would be different. But it seems pretty clear to me that BYU's tournament performance is the root of any perceived bias against BYU. If their RPI has been higher than their seeding indicates, maybe the RPI is off.

You don't complain about only being given an 8 seed and then go and lose to the 9 seed.

Further, there's nothing in reality to indicate that a BYU with a top-8 RPI would still be given a seed of 6 or below, as the fear seems to be.

Seeds are determined by what a team does prior to Selection Sunday, not by what is supposed to happen after it. It seems counterproductive to try to use a sample size of 1 or 2 games after the fact to try to go back and determine whether seedings were right, when seedings are based on the body of 30+ previous games.

If a team goes undefeated, gets a #1 seed, and loses in the second round of the NCAAs, it doesn't mean that they were seeded too high. Conversely, if a #12 seed goes on a run and makes the Final Four, it doesn't mean that they were seeded too low.

To another point that was made in the thread, performance in prior years' NCAAs is not supposed to affect seeding, but I think it does affect it in reality.

[Indy Coug]

To another point that was made in the thread, performance in prior years' NCAAs is not supposed to affect seeding, but I think it does affect it in reality.

I haven't seen any evidence to support this contention.

[Goatnapper'96]

Okay, since my point has been lost, apparently, here it is.

I think the cynicism about how BYU is treated by the NCAA tournament committee (and how they will be treated this year) is largely a product of some sort of persecution complex. Considering how BYU has done in the tournament in recent years, I don't know that you can really argue that their seedings have been inappropriate.

in 2007, #8 BYU lost to #9 Xavier 79-77. Nothing in the result indicates they were deserving of a higher seed.

In 2008, #8 BYU lost to #9 Texas A & M 67-62. Nothing there indicates they were deserving of a higher seed.

In 2009, #8 BYU lost to #9 Texas A & M 79-66. Nothing there indicates they were unfairly seeded.

In 2010, #7 BYU beat #10 Florida 99-92 in 2OT. They then lost to #2 Kansas State 84-72. What was unfair about that seeding?

Had BYU demonstrated that they were better than their seeds, then I'm sure the perception would be different. But it seems pretty clear to me that BYU's tournament performance is the root of any perceived bias against BYU. If their RPI has been higher than their seeding indicates, maybe the RPI is off.

You don't complain about only being given an 8 seed and then go and lose to the 9 seed.

Further, there's nothing in reality to indicate that a BYU with a top-8 RPI would still be given a seed of 6 or below, as the fear seems to be.

I thought the BYU team when Travis Hansen was a senior was underseeded a bit. I think Utah got an 8 seed that year and BYU a 12. But BYU choked the game away to Utah in the MC and then choked in the MWC semis to CSU. However, I thought that taking the entire body of evidence that team deserved at least a 9 or 10 seed.

I thought the other 12 seeds were fair. I also thought the 8 seeds were fair. I also think BYU will get seeded fairly this year.

[Green Monstah]

I understand the cynicism but I don't expect something that drastic this year as long as BYU finishes relatively strong. BYU's resume will likely be as strong as it ever has been. If they are worthy of a 2 seed at the end of the year the brackets get shifted to their favor and not the other way around.

If we win the MWC tourney, then I say we deserve it. I'm still pretty skeptical about the team overall. I really want a Sweet 16 berth this year.