Some game thoughts and state of the program

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  • jay santos
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2008
    • 13652

    #1

    Some game thoughts and state of the program

    Very very fun game.

    1. How gutsy was that for Rose to bench Jimmer in the key stretch of the second half when Morgan is already out of the game. Forget Bronco's balls, Goat (or is it Bronco's penis that's big I forget). Rose is the BYU coach with the big ones.

    2. Hartsock, what a stud. This team is becoming complete with the emergence of Miles and Hartsock. Hartsock lacks in athleticism (what's with being stuffed by UNLV's shortest player on a layup??--and it wasn't a foul it was a clean block)

    3. Miles. He's also coming around. He needs to get more time. I understand Rose wanted to go smaller late in the second half, but I would have liked to see Miles play more minutes that game. He was a man posessed for a stretch in the second half. It was like Bruce Banner starting to turn green. Whoa big fella, I like the intensity but calm down dude you're going to explode. I love it. The matchup might not have worked in his favor against UNLV's athletic bigs, but I see Miles becoming a strength on this team down the stretch. He really looks like he's in the process of turning the corner. Davies is not quite ready for prime time. He needs to get in his 12 minutes a game to continue to develop, but Miles is the man.

    4. Reffing--it wasn't one sided and the ref's did a decent job, but man I've never seen a game so permissively called. It's a bloodbath and you look up with a 6 minutes left in each half and both teams have 2 fouls??!!

    5. UNLV's defense. I'm so jealous. I love how they play. The are hard. We are soft. Fellas, that's how you play D. UNLV gives concussions and bloodies noses. We reach out and tap you on a layup to give you an "and 1". Maybe this team needs some boxing cross training.

    6. Our D. Although, that said about how soft we are, we finally looked good with the lineup Hartsock-JT-Charles-Jackson-Loyd. That's a nice looking defensive team. Rose said he moved from jump switching the ball screens to straight switching and it worked wonders. I think he finally figured out how to defend UNLV. I also liked switching to the zone when he brought back in Jimmer, because Jimmer was absolutely killing us on defense all night. With UNLV's weakness in outside shooting (except for going 4/4 for 14 points on outside shots to start the second half bastards), I wouldn't mind seeing the zone a little more often against them, but in their gym for the return game probably best to stick to man.

    7. Abouo. Last game the D2 game Abouo was completely mentally absent. I don't know if his girlfriend just broke up with him or if he was upset about not starting with Jimmer and Jax out of the lineup, but he was awful. He made at least 10 mental mistakes in his limited time. Dumb passes, dumb shots, dumb dribbling errors, not paying attention on D, it was just really odd. Then he comes back in this game and played a nice role as a defender in the straight switching experiment. Rose said in post game he had guys in the game Hartsock, JT, Charles that can guard both a big man and a little man and decided to change it up. Loyd in the post game after Eastern NM was asked "who on this team is not reaching his full potential that the fans don't know about yet but will break out in the future?" Loyd didn't pause "Charles". He said Charles is the fastest player on the team and dominates in practice. He played point guard on his summer team that played internationally and worked hard on his game and outside shot. He'll be a future star. I agree. It's at least a year away maybe even two, but Charles' time will come. And he's nice to have in games like this where we need an athletic defender. I actually wonder if with Rose's style of going small, if Charles could actually play some 4 on this team. Let Davies play 12 minutes behind Miles. Let Charles play 12 minutes behind Noah. And let JT play most of his minutes at the wing.

    8. Loyd. Fantastic play the last two games. He's not getting a lot of time with the stars ahead of him and Morgan's solid play, but I like him also. He'll round out a fabulous guard threesome next year playing backup at both 1 and 2, and then he'll start at point his senior season. Solid guards lined up for the Cougs for seasons to come.

    9. I'm forecasting a UTEP win and a MWC 13-3 season, preserving our ranking until the end of the year, maybe back and forth out of the top 25 with a loss, but finishing around #20. If we win the MWC tourney, we go in 27-4 or whatever and probably a 4 seed. If we lose the MWC tourney, we go in 26-5 and maybe a 6-7 seed. Either way, I'm calling it now. Rose gets the monkey off his back with a tourney win. If we get a 5 seed or better, we go sweet 16, even though I'm told that's essentially impossible unless your program has a prior tourney run within the last 10-15 years.
  • Eddie
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2009
    • 8098

    #2
    Nice write-up. I even tend to agree with most of what you have to say.

    I know some have been frustrated with not winning in the tourney, but I really think it is just a matter of time. Rose is building something here that will continue to grow. Over time they'll get used to winning in bigger games against better opponents and the NCAA runs will come.


    One small nitpick - you do realize that both the bloody nose and the concusion came while UNLV was on offense, right? I mean, I like UNLV's pressure defense too - but those probably aren't the best examples of why.

    Comment

    • jay santos
      Senior Member
      • Nov 2008
      • 13652

      #3
      Originally posted by Eddie View Post
      Nice write-up. I even tend to agree with most of what you have to say.

      I know some have been frustrated with not winning in the tourney, but I really think it is just a matter of time. Rose is building something here that will continue to grow. Over time they'll get used to winning in bigger games against better opponents and the NCAA runs will come.


      One small nitpick - you do realize that both the bloody nose and the concusion came while UNLV was on offense, right? I mean, I like UNLV's pressure defense too - but those probably aren't the best examples of why.
      Yes, true. I guess I mean physical level of play in general, not just on defense.

      Comment

      • TripletDaddy
        sweet triple
        • Nov 2008
        • 58186

        #4
        Nice summary. My only quibble is with Miles. Every time I have seen that kid play, he seems awful.....lousy hands, out of position, inability to play with fouls, doesn't finish well even with his high-percentage shots.....I'd much rather see his time go to Davies.

        Am I totally off-base on this one? Maybe I need to pay more attention to Miles or give him another chance.
        Fitter. Happier. More Productive.

        sigpic

        Comment

        • smokymountainrain
          Impressive Member
          • Nov 2008
          • 22593

          #5
          Originally posted by TripletDaddy View Post
          Nice summary. My only quibble is with Miles. Every time I have seen that kid play, he seems awful.....lousy hands, out of position, inability to play with fouls, doesn't finish well even with his high-percentage shots.....I'd much rather see his time go to Davies.

          Am I totally off-base on this one? Maybe I need to pay more attention to Miles or give him another chance.
          Not off base at all. I couldn't agree more. I can't remember seeing anybody with such a low Bball IQ in a long time - especially defensively. It's almost comical how many stupid fouls he commits with his body. If he gets that little "white guy" fall away jumper working, he can be useful, but outside of that, he's a complete stiff.
          I'm like LeBron James.
          -mpfunk

          Comment

          • Indy Coug
            Heartless Bastard
            • Dec 2008
            • 18747

            #6
            Originally posted by TripletDaddy View Post
            Nice summary. My only quibble is with Miles. Every time I have seen that kid play, he seems awful.....lousy hands, out of position, inability to play with fouls, doesn't finish well even with his high-percentage shots.....I'd much rather see his time go to Davies.

            Am I totally off-base on this one? Maybe I need to pay more attention to Miles or give him another chance.
            I think Miles has been pretty solid for the last month or so, despite his limited playing time.
            Everything in life is an approximation.

            http://twitter.com/CougarStats

            Comment

            • smokymountainrain
              Impressive Member
              • Nov 2008
              • 22593

              #7
              Originally posted by jay santos View Post
              Very very fun game.

              1. How gutsy was that for Rose to bench Jimmer in the key stretch of the second half when Morgan is already out of the game. Forget Bronco's balls, Goat (or is it Bronco's penis that's big I forget). Rose is the BYU coach with the big ones.
              Who the hell accused Bronco of having balls? Based on the way he coaches a football game, I'd guess Ryan Seacrest has bigger balls than Bronco. As BYU coaches are concerned, Alli Bills probably has bigger balls than Bronco.
              I'm like LeBron James.
              -mpfunk

              Comment

              • byu71
                Senior Member
                • Nov 2008
                • 22070

                #8
                I really, really like Rose. He makes tough decisions. I don't know if benching Jimmer was that tough of a decision. The kid just couldn't get it done. He went to the middle and barely got of the ground and got swatted. It was obvious to even a BB novice such as myself he had to be sat.

                I hope this isn't some lingering sickness with Jimmer.

                Comment

                • Indy Coug
                  Heartless Bastard
                  • Dec 2008
                  • 18747

                  #9
                  Originally posted by smokymountainrain View Post
                  Who the hell accused Bronco of having balls? Based on the way he coaches a football game, I'd guess Ryan Seacrest has bigger balls than Bronco. As BYU coaches are concerned, Alli Bills probably has bigger balls than Bronco.
                  Man, you're really weird.
                  Everything in life is an approximation.

                  http://twitter.com/CougarStats

                  Comment

                  • jay santos
                    Senior Member
                    • Nov 2008
                    • 13652

                    #10
                    Originally posted by TripletDaddy View Post
                    Nice summary. My only quibble is with Miles. Every time I have seen that kid play, he seems awful.....lousy hands, out of position, inability to play with fouls, doesn't finish well even with his high-percentage shots.....I'd much rather see his time go to Davies.

                    Am I totally off-base on this one? Maybe I need to pay more attention to Miles or give him another chance.
                    I think I would have agreed with you two weeks ago, and I'm not betting my life on this one, and it's kind of more a hunch but I feel like I'm watching him turn the corner.

                    It might be his body language. He had a monster dunk against Eastern New Mexico. He about tore down the backboard on a dunk last night after the whistle was blown. He was extremely active last night on D and really looked like he was going to explode with energy. I've never noticed him doing these things before.

                    His stats have been decent the last three games going for 8.3 points and 4.3 rebs in 18 minutes (but that's mostly padded by the ENM game).

                    Comment

                    • TripletDaddy
                      sweet triple
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 58186

                      #11
                      Originally posted by byu71 View Post
                      I really, really like Rose. He makes tough decisions. I don't know if benching Jimmer was that tough of a decision. The kid just couldn't get it done. He went to the middle and barely got of the ground and got swatted. It was obvious to even a BB novice such as myself he had to be sat.

                      I hope this isn't some lingering sickness with Jimmer.
                      I do think he has learned his lessons now the hard way. I have mentioned this to junkie, but I wonder what others here think......one of BYU's biggest problems with getting out of the first round (at least in my lousy opinion) is a lack of the legit go-to guy down the stretch. I am not talking about someone with the skills to be a go-to go...I am talking about a guy who has a killer instinct and isn't afraid to consistently demand the ball and take over.

                      You could argue that maybe Wesley used to be that way. Araujo, not so much. Lee Cummard would almost shy away from demanding the ball in the MWC tournament. JT never met a shot he didn't like, but doesn't connect on enough of them to be the go-to guy. I think that despite last night's illness, Jimmer IS a go-to guy down the stretch. He doesnt show fear or hesitation, but isn't wreckless. I think that in the MWC tourney or the NCAA tourney, he will step up and demand the ball.

                      Further, this year it seems like Rose has taken his coaching to another level. He reduces JT's role, knowing that it might be unpopular, because it is for the overall benefit of the team. Also, in doing this, he establishes clearly that this is Jimmer's team. Rose also gives Jimmer the green light but benches him down the stretch, once again, because keeping Jimmer in is to the detriment of the team in that particular situation. As a result, I just get the sense that Rose is keeping this current squad hungry. There is more of a vibe of "if you produce, you play. If you dont produce, you sit." The team has obviously bought into it. Rose isn't punishing the players, he is simply acknowledging that on any given night, any player will be able to contribute and should be kept in the game (last night Lloyd is in down the stretch and comes up big for the team).

                      I just don't think Rose from a couple of years ago benches Jimmer or reduces JT's role last night. This latest iteration of Coach Rose is a more mature, more seasoned coach that has learned a bit from past mistakes.

                      This is a really exciting team for BYU. I think there is some nice potential.
                      Fitter. Happier. More Productive.

                      sigpic

                      Comment

                      • Flystripper
                        Degenerate Gambler
                        • Nov 2008
                        • 14095

                        #12
                        Originally posted by TripletDaddy View Post
                        Nice summary. My only quibble is with Miles. Every time I have seen that kid play, he seems awful.....lousy hands, out of position, inability to play with fouls, doesn't finish well even with his high-percentage shots.....I'd much rather see his time go to Davies.

                        Am I totally off-base on this one? Maybe I need to pay more attention to Miles or give him another chance.
                        You must not have seen the Utah State loss. Miles has his moments. With him it is all about match-ups. Against Utah state he was the player that kept us in the game. Against quick athletic post players that face up he can struggle; especially defensively, but against all others he is invaluable. His post defense is "miles" ahead of any other post player on the team.
                        Dyslexics are teople poo...

                        Comment

                        • jay santos
                          Senior Member
                          • Nov 2008
                          • 13652

                          #13
                          Originally posted by TripletDaddy View Post
                          I do think he has learned his lessons now the hard way. I have mentioned this to junkie, but I wonder what others here think......one of BYU's biggest problems with getting out of the first round (at least in my lousy opinion) is a lack of the legit go-to guy down the stretch. I am not talking about someone with the skills to be a go-to go...I am talking about a guy who has a killer instinct and isn't afraid to consistently demand the ball and take over.

                          You could argue that maybe Wesley used to be that way. Araujo, not so much. Lee Cummard would almost shy away from demanding the ball in the MWC tournament. JT never met a shot he didn't like, but doesn't connect on enough of them to be the go-to guy. I think that despite last night's illness, Jimmer IS a go-to guy down the stretch. He doesnt show fear or hesitation, but isn't wreckless. I think that in the MWC tourney or the NCAA tourney, he will step up and demand the ball.

                          Further, this year it seems like Rose has taken his coaching to another level. He reduces JT's role, knowing that it might be unpopular, because it is for the overall benefit of the team. Also, in doing this, he establishes clearly that this is Jimmer's team. Rose also gives Jimmer the green light but benches him down the stretch, once again, because keeping Jimmer in is to the detriment of the team in that particular situation. As a result, I just get the sense that Rose is keeping this current squad hungry. There is more of a vibe of "if you produce, you play. If you dont produce, you sit." The team has obviously bought into it. Rose isn't punishing the players, he is simply acknowledging that on any given night, any player will be able to contribute and should be kept in the game (last night Lloyd is in down the stretch and comes up big for the team).

                          I just don't think Rose from a couple of years ago benches Jimmer or reduces JT's role last night. This latest iteration of Coach Rose is a more mature, more seasoned coach that has learned a bit from past mistakes.

                          This is a really exciting team for BYU. I think there is some nice potential.
                          Rose is likely evolving as a coach, but the depth of this team definitely gives him more options.

                          Comment

                          • I.J. Reilly
                            Nobody's Fool
                            • Apr 2009
                            • 2949

                            #14
                            Originally posted by TripletDaddy View Post
                            Further, this year it seems like Rose has taken his coaching to another level. He reduces JT's role, knowing that it might be unpopular, because it is for the overall benefit of the team. Also, in doing this, he establishes clearly that this is Jimmer's team. Rose also gives Jimmer the green light but benches him down the stretch, once again, because keeping Jimmer in is to the detriment of the team in that particular situation. As a result, I just get the sense that Rose is keeping this current squad hungry. There is more of a vibe of "if you produce, you play. If you dont produce, you sit." The team has obviously bought into it. Rose isn't punishing the players, he is simply acknowledging that on any given night, any player will be able to contribute and should be kept in the game (last night Lloyd is in down the stretch and comes up big for the team).

                            I just don't think Rose from a couple of years ago benches Jimmer or reduces JT's role last night. This latest iteration of Coach Rose is a more mature, more seasoned coach that has learned a bit from past mistakes.

                            This is a really exciting team for BYU. I think there is some nice potential.
                            Perhaps Rose's near brush with death has inspired him to do more of the things he may just have thought about doing before.

                            I've always liked Rose, but it seems like this year he has been a lot more aggressive in game managing his team. For example, there was a time last night near the end of the game, probably somewhere between the 6 and 3 minute mark where UNLV had something like a 6 point lead. The players on the floor kept trying to just work the outside shots and weren't pressing anything inside. Rose called a timeout and coming out of the timeout they were much more aggressive on the inside. This may have been just about the time that Hartstock went back in, too. Anyways, I think in the past Rose might have let them shoot the perimeter more and not have made the in game adjustments that needed to be made, for whatever reason.

                            Comment

                            • TheBYUGuy
                              Friend of Rodin
                              • Sep 2009
                              • 1442

                              #15
                              Originally posted by TripletDaddy View Post
                              Nice summary. My only quibble is with Miles. Every time I have seen that kid play, he seems awful.....lousy hands, out of position, inability to play with fouls, doesn't finish well even with his high-percentage shots.....I'd much rather see his time go to Davies.

                              Am I totally off-base on this one? Maybe I need to pay more attention to Miles or give him another chance.
                              For the record, Miles is shooting 58.3% from the field this season. He may look lost out there, but on offense he's decent.

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