Texas executes an innocent man

[Tex]

I am sure the innocent victims of capital punishment would love to direct their venom at the responsible irrational human but they can't becaseu they are dead. That is exactly the problem. You can't fix that error. 'Ooops' doesn't quite cut it.

We have to decide what our policy is as a society. We know some crimes deserve death, but some may not so clearly and we also know that sometimes the wrong person is convicted. This can NEVER be avoided, as you concede. Thus, if our policy adopts death, we will kill some number of people who are innocent or whose circumstances don't truly justify death. OTOH, if we adopt no death penalty as a policy, we know with perfect certainty that no innocent person will ever be executed in our name by irrational humans.

Though as Scalia noted in 2006 (mentioned in the article), that number currently stands at zero.

[SeattleUte]

Though as Scalia noted in 2006 (mentioned in the article), that number currently stands at zero.

He is deluded, naive, or venal, like I said. He can't say that for sure. It is administered inequitably; in any event, now here we have the case where innocense appears clear and people are shouting it out from the rooftops. If Scalia is a man of his word and not just a High Court troll, he will now banish the death penalty as unconstitutional cruel and unusual punishment.

[creekster]

Though as Scalia noted in 2006 (mentioned in the article), that number currently stands at zero.

I think he is wrong. Doesn't the result of the justice project suggest this is unlikley to be true?

[SeattleUte]

I think he is wrong. Doesn't the result of the justice project suggest this is unlikley to be true?

Scalia is splitting hairs, and self-contradictory. Many have been on death row for decades and proved innocent and released, because of the fail safe procedures he often derides. Whether anyone has been innocent and actually executed "in modern times" is perhaps a more open question.

I note that few states execute anyone with any regularity. Even Utah hardly can bear to do it any more. No state is Texas' equal for regularly killing.

[creekster]

I note that few states execute anyone with any regularity. Even Utah hardly can bear to do it any more. No state is Texas' equal for regularly killing.

Again when I worked at a court, a very high profile murder case resulted in an execution. I was horrified by the behvaior I saw at the prison gates. It was literally a party. there were ablloons, food, drink and even a clown hired to entertain the kids present. I am not making this up. It was shocking. A celebration of the death of a sick person. I would hope that states do find it difficult to do.

Scalia is splitting hairs; moreover, if it hasnt happened, it aill happen eventually. It is inevitable.

[beefytee]

I think SU brings up some good points.

I never want to be accused of anything criminal in Texas.

I think I'm about in line with creekster here.

There are times when the death is called for and they are few and far between.

[SeattleUte]

Again when I worked at a court, a very high profile murder case resulted in an execution. I was horrified by the behvaior I saw at the prison gates. It was literally a party. there were ablloons, food, drink and even a clown hired to entertain the kids present. I am not making this up. It was shocking. A celebration of the death of a sick person. I would hope that states do find it difficult to do.

Scalia is splitting hairs; moreover, if it hasnt happened, it aill happen eventually. It is inevitable.

That is an amazing story. I have heard stories about prosecutors going out for big steak dinners to celebrate executions.

[Indy Coug]

That is an amazing story. I have heard stories about prosecutors going out for big steak dinners to celebrate executions.

That's basically what I did when Saddam was executed, seeing how he once fired scuds that landed near my family.

[Tex]

He is deluded, naive, or venal, like I said. He can't say that for sure. It is administered inequitably; in any event, now here we have the case where innocense appears clear and people are shouting it out from the rooftops. If Scalia is a man of his word and not just a High Court troll, he will now banish the death penalty as unconstitutional cruel and unusual punishment.

I think he is wrong. Doesn't the result of the justice project suggest this is unlikley to be true?

No, he's not wrong. As of today (so far as I know, anyway), no one who has been executed has been posthumously proven not guilty. In his 2006 Kansas concurring opinion, he eviscerates Souter's dissent, concluding after a lengthy consideration of the evidence against the death penalty:

Like other human institutions, courts and juries are not perfect. One cannot have a system of criminal punishment without accepting the possibility that someone will be punished mistakenly. That is a truism, not a revelation. But with regard to the punishment of death in the current American system, that possibility has been reduced to an insignificant minimum. This explains why those ideologically driven to ferret out and proclaim a mistaken modern execution have not a single verifiable case to point to, whereas it is easy as pie to identify plainly guilty murderers who have been set free.

More to the point:

The American people have determined that the good to be derived from capital punishment—in deterrence, and perhaps most of all in the meting out of condign justice for horrible crimes—outweighs the risk of error.

That's what this debate is really about ... is the potential for error worth the trade-off in administering justice? Scalia argues that the inability of the opposition to produce a single modern case underscores that it is, and he points out that the American people (via democratic means) agree with him.

[YOhio]

Texas-style justice. Sickening. Texas, Iran, China, Pakistan, these places are in a class by themselves.

A few weeks ago, I read an article where a province level political leader in China complained about the heavy cost associated with administering lethal injection over use of a firing squad. According to Amnesty International estimates, China executed over 1,700 people last year. That is more than the rest of the world combined.

According to the DOJ, 37 persons in nine states were executed in 2008. 18 of those were in Texas, just under half of the other states combined.

[Pheidippides]

A few weeks ago, I read an article where a province level political leader in China complained about the heavy cost associated with administering lethal injection over use of a firing squad. According to Amnesty International estimates, China executed over 1,700 people last year. That is more than the rest of the world combined.

According to the DOJ, 37 persons in nine states were executed in 2008. 18 of those were in Texas, just under half of the other states combined.

I do think, btw, the Texas statistics have something to do with the size of the state. California, Texas, New York and Florida are the most populous states, in that order. California and New York do not have the death penalty in practice (if not in law). I am not sure about Florida. Anyway, what you have is a state that very much as an eye for an eye ethic with a large population. I would be interested to see what the percentage of executions in Texas when compared to only states that had the death penalty, and then again as a function of population of states that had the death penalty. I suspect that Texas would still be disproportionate, but maybe not as much as previously believed. I am, of course, too lazy to do any of that work myself.

As stated before, I am not in favor of the death penalty. To be honest (and in addition to what I said earlier) I have a hard time seeing what the death penalty does that life without parole does not.

(To save time, proponents of the death penalty should forget about bombarding me with materials on deterrence theories and costs - I spent most of my earlier life on the other side of this position, and I'm no stranger to either behavioral economics or statistics).

[beefytee]

I would be interested to see what the percentage of executions in Texas when compared to only states that had the death penalty, and then again as a function of population of states that had the death penalty. I suspect that Texas would still be disproportionate, but maybe not as much as previously believed. I am, of course, too lazy to do any of that work myself.

Here is something close to what you were looking for:

http://deathpenaltyinfo.org/death-sentences-capita-state

[Pheidippides]

Here is something close to what you were looking for:

http://deathpenaltyinfo.org/death-se...s-capita-state

Look at that! We're not even top 10.

[Tex]

Here is something close to what you were looking for:

http://deathpenaltyinfo.org/death-se...s-capita-state

Do you happen to have the numbers for China, Iran, and Pakistan, by chance?

[beefytee]

Do you happen to have the numbers for China, Iran, and Pakistan, by chance?

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=capital+punishment+by+country+per+capita