Obama tainted

[SeattleUte]

So we see inside the machine that spawned Obama. It's hard to see him the same. The most jarring thing for me is the business as usual aspect of it. At first it's tempting to wonder if the governor was suffering some kind of a breakdown. But there were too many people coming and doing his bidding. Like OJ, his plea will be, "But I didn't know I was doing anything wrong." Speaks volumes. And they were just one step away from adding Obama to their circle of filth (giving Obama the benefit of the doubt). They were talking about him like he would be approached in due course.

Each election when I review our pamphlet I'm always amazed at how little most politicians did with their lives other than politics. Here in Washington almost all of them didn't even go to good schools or distinguish themselves academically, including the judges (AG Rob McKenna the only exception). Like geckos, politicians seem to be hard wired for just one thing.

[The Rambam]

Obama is only tainted in the eyes of those to whom he was tainted already.

It is like the Eastern Orthodox releasing a study showing the possibility of a break in the Catholic priesthood line of authority near the year 200 and all the Mormons sit up and say "How Interesting!!"

[SeattleUte]

Obama is only tainted in the eyes of those to whom he was tainted already.

I don't mean anything other than Obama is not a prophet or a saint; he's a politician. My favorite modern president--Truman--came out of a political machine that engaged in criminal activity.

[RobinFinderson]

So we see inside the machine that spawned Obama... Speaks volumes. And they were just one step away from adding Obama to their circle of filth (giving Obama the benefit of the doubt). They were talking about him like he would be approached in due course.

Not a single founded tie to Obama, yet you title your thread "Obama Tainted?" Speaks volumes. I'm sure the PE would thank you for your 'benefit of the doubt.'

[byu71]

The thing that is amuzing to me, but not surprising is to see the press reporting on this. They are not shocked. Everyone who knows anything about politics knows how dirty Illinois and especially Chicago politics is and has been for a long time.

However, talking about Obama and his association with this corrupt political climate was taboo.

I actually thought throughout the campaign that Obama probably associated with these folks not because he was rotten, but that is what he needed to do to climb up in Chicago politics.

Look, most politicians who make it to Congress and stay there are not the type of people you would want to go into business with anyway. When they end up having affairs or are corrupt in other ways, how really surprised are we.

Yea, if I found out Bush pulled off some of this crap I would be surprised. Of course he isn't a good politician is he?

[RobinFinderson]

I don't mean anything other than Obama is not a prophet or a saint; he's a politician. My favorite modern president--Truman--came out of a political machine that engaged in criminal activity.

So Obama isn't the second coming? Thanks for the insight!

The fact is, there are only so many 'political machines' in this country that can propel black candidates into the highest offices. Like all machines, they have their serious flaws. What is a candidate to do? Establish a grass roots movement and turn back 200 years of partisan politics? Not if he is serious.

At some point serious candidates get in bed with a political machine. Some of them do it for personal gain. Others have a genuine desire to serve the public. Obama's association with this machine has not yet revealed which kind of politician he will be.

[Clark Addison]

And they were just one step away from adding Obama to their circle of filth (giving Obama the benefit of the doubt). They were talking about him like he would be approached in due course.

Was that the point at which Blagojevich called Obama a "Motherfucker"?

[il Padrino Ute]

Obama is only tainted in the eyes of those to whom he was tainted already.

It is like the Eastern Orthodox releasing a study showing the possibility of a break in the Catholic priesthood line of authority near the year 200 and all the Mormons sit up and say "How Interesting!!"

Right. Obama is pure.

Only a fool believes that.

[Clark Addison]

Right. Obama is pure.

Only a fool believes that.

I'm not going to say that Obama is as pure as the driven snow, because I never assume that about a politician.

I will say that I have seen nothing in the Blagojevich mess that makes Obama look bad, and on the contrary, there are some things that make him look good. I do think that Obama should put out a statement describing all the contacts his team had with Blagojevich over the last couple of months.

P.S. The good thing about this scandal is that, even though I lived in Illinois for years, it is only this week that I have learned how to spell Blagojevich without looking it up.

[RobinFinderson]

One possible narrative that our anti-Obama crowd has not considered is that Obama might actually be a white knight in this story. He might be more more like Michael Corleone made good. Think about it...

... Michael Corleone gets drawn into his family's corrupt business. Barack Obama wants to be a politician, but in Illinois, the only game in town is corrupt. Throughout much of Michael's rise in power, he remains convinced that he will one day give up the power and go legit. As Obama rose up through the Illinois political machine, he probably became acutely aware of its inner workings, and perhaps decided that one day he would make Illinois legit, should he ever have the power to do so. Now here is where the two stories diverge. Once all-powerful, rather than legitimize his family business Michael further consolidates power. Obama, on the other hand, (possibly) pulls back the curtain for Fitzgerald and starts to dismantle the corruption.

To me, because of my bias, this white knight story is more likely. To a person biased against Obama, the story sullies him. But at this point it is only bias, and not evidence that would lead a person to believe one narrative over the other.

[The Rambam]

Right. Obama is pure.

Only a fool believes that.

Discussing politics with you is like playing cards with a deck with 52 club deuces. One can always predict what the next card out of your hand will be.

But we can join forces in hoping for an Alabama loss in their next bowl game, right?

[Brian]

One possible narrative that our anti-Obama crowd has not considered is that Obama might actually be a white knight in this story. He might be more more like Michael Corleone made good. Think about it...

... Michael Corleone gets drawn into his family's corrupt business. Barack Obama wants to be a politician, but in Illinois, the only game in town is corrupt. Throughout much of Michael's rise in power, he remains convinced that he will one day give up the power and go legit. As Obama rose up through the Illinois political machine, he probably became acutely aware of its inner workings, and perhaps decided that one day he would make Illinois legit, should he ever have the power to do so. Now here is where the two stories diverge. Once all-powerful, rather than legitimize his family business Michael further consolidates power. Obama, on the other hand, (possibly) pulls back the curtain for Fitzgerald and starts to dismantle the corruption.

To me, because of my bias, this white knight story is more likely. To a person biased against Obama, the story sullies him. But at this point it is only bias, and not evidence that would lead a person to believe one narrative over the other.

Sure, it's possible.
But, I don't have much trust in politicians. And Obama is just another politician. A very bright and very skilled politician, but a politician. I'd love to have my mind changed, but time will tell. We know so little about this guy.

[il Padrino Ute]

Discussing politics with you is like playing cards with a deck with 52 club deuces. One can always predict what the next card out of your hand will be.

But we can join forces in hoping for an Alabama loss in their next bowl game, right?

You're the one singing Obama's demagoguery.

[RobinFinderson]

Sure, it's possible.
But, I don't have much trust in politicians. And Obama is just another politician. A very bright and very skilled politician, but a politician. I'd love to have my mind changed, but time will tell. We know so little about this guy.

Your skepticism is sensible. I was only offering an equally plausible counter-narrative to the anti-Obama one, the point being that in the absence of evidence, the stories we choose to believe tell more about us than they do about reality.

[myboynoah]

One possible narrative that our anti-Obama crowd has not considered is that Obama might actually be a white knight in this story. He might be more more like Michael Corleone made good. Think about it...

... Michael Corleone gets drawn into his family's corrupt business. Barack Obama wants to be a politician, but in Illinois, the only game in town is corrupt. Throughout much of Michael's rise in power, he remains convinced that he will one day give up the power and go legit. As Obama rose up through the Illinois political machine, he probably became acutely aware of its inner workings, and perhaps decided that one day he would make Illinois legit, should he ever have the power to do so. Now here is where the two stories diverge. Once all-powerful, rather than legitimize his family business Michael further consolidates power. Obama, on the other hand, (possibly) pulls back the curtain for Fitzgerald and starts to dismantle the corruption.

To me, because of my bias, this white knight story is more likely. To a person biased against Obama, the story sullies him. But at this point it is only bias, and not evidence that would lead a person to believe one narrative over the other.

I like the Obama/Michael comparison. Yes, in a way, Michael was a community organizer. I think the movie's message is timeless.