COVID-19 Vaccines, Herd Immunity, & the Anti-Vaxxers

[Jeff Lebowski]

This is an interesting enough tangent that I think it deserves a dedicated thread. Clearly, this pandemic will not be over until an effective vaccine is developed, tested, mass-produced, and used by large majority of the population. Given the moon-shot style effort currently underway and billions of dollars being invested, I am quite confident that the first 3 of those 4 things will happen - by the end of this year or early next year. Sadly, I am less confident of item 4. I saw a poll recently showing that 50% of Americans say they will not accept a vaccine when it is ready. I know several people personally who say the same thing. And given how incredibly stupid people are acting about masks right now, I have little doubt that vaccines will be similar.

So what do we do? What happens if half of the population refuses to get vaccinated? Do you deny them access to public places and events? Do you just open everything up and let them suffer the consequences? If you do that, what happens when your hospitals are overwhelmed with sick anti-vaxxers?

How did we become this stupid and anti-science? It's depressing.

[beefytee]

This is an interesting enough tangent that I think it deserves a dedicated thread. Clearly, this pandemic will not be over until an effective vaccine is developed, tested, mass-produced, and used by large majority of the population. Given the moon-shot style effort currently underway and billions of dollars being invested, I am quite confident that the first 3 of those 4 things will happen - by the end of this year or early next year. Sadly, I am less confident of item 4. I saw a poll recently showing that 50% of Americans say they will not accept a vaccine when it is ready. I know several people personally who say the same thing. And given how incredibly stupid people are acting about masks right now, I have little doubt that vaccines will be similar.

So what do we do? What happens if half of the population refuses to get vaccinated? Do you deny them access to public places and events? Do you just open everything up and let them suffer the consequences? If you do that, what happens when your hospitals are overwhelmed with sick anti-vaxxers?

How did we become this stupid and anti-science? It's depressing.

It isn't just the anti-vaxxers who would be affected though. Much like all vaccines, there are people with health issues that can't get vaccines and are dependent on herd immunity to stay healthy.

I imagine that all children attending public schools in Utah will be required to get the vaccine, similar to other vaccines. https://immunize.utah.gov/school-ear...nization-rule/

Unfortunately there is an exemption for Medical (Good), religious (debatable), and Personal (bad) reasons.

Time to at least get rid of the personal exemption.

[SeattleUte]

This is an interesting enough tangent that I think it deserves a dedicated thread. Clearly, this pandemic will not be over until an effective vaccine is developed, tested, mass-produced, and used by large majority of the population. Given the moon-shot style effort currently underway and billions of dollars being invested, I am quite confident that the first 3 of those 4 things will happen - by the end of this year or early next year. Sadly, I am less confident of item 4. I saw a poll recently showing that 50% of Americans say they will not accept a vaccine when it is ready. I know several people personally who say the same thing. And given how incredibly stupid people are acting about masks right now, I have little doubt that vaccines will be similar.

So what do we do? What happens if half of the population refuses to get vaccinated? Do you deny them access to public places and events? Do you just open everything up and let them suffer the consequences? If you do that, what happens when your hospitals are overwhelmed with sick anti-vaxxers?

How did we become this stupid and anti-science? It's depressing.

Yes. Yes. The hospitals will be fine. But businesses can require it of employees, as can public and private schools. There are ways to force enough of them to get it. By the way, this is not just a problem on the crazy right.

[Jeff Lebowski]

It isn't just the anti-vaxxers who would be affected though. Much like all vaccines, there are people with health issues that can't get vaccines and are dependent on herd immunity to stay healthy.

I imagine that all children attending public schools in Utah will be required to get the vaccine, similar to other vaccines. https://immunize.utah.gov/school-ear...nization-rule/

Unfortunately there is an exemption for Medical (Good), religious (debatable), and Personal (bad) reasons.

Time to at least get rid of the personal exemption.

That personal exemption makes the whole requirement meaningless. "You are required to get your kids vaccinated - unless you don't want to."

[Applejack]

It's interesting to me how relatively prominent the anti-vaccine sentiment is among mormons. I don't remember this sentiment among the good folks of SLC while I was growing up, but from what my brother tells me it is relatively wide-spread among educated mormons and the poorly educated (I love the poorly educated!).

[beefytee]

That personal exemption makes the whole requirement meaningless. "You are required to get your kids vaccinated - unless you don't want to."

Yep, outside of some bureaucratic hoops to jump through, it makes it meaningless. Time to get rid of it.

[falafel]

It's interesting to me how relatively prominent the anti-vaccine sentiment is among mormons. I don't remember this sentiment among the good folks of SLC while I was growing up, but from what my brother tells me it is relatively wide-spread among educated mormons and the poorly educated (I love the poorly educated!).

I don't quite get where that Utah gene comes from. I guess it is from our history of not wanting others to tell us what to do.

Driving through St. George recently, I saw a minivan with the words "Moms Against Masks" and "#covidscam" written on the back window.

[The_Tick]

My brother packed up his family and moved to Hawaii, from California, because California requires vaccines to enroll kids into school. His wife is an anti-vaxxer because she doesn't want her kids to get the autism.

[BigFatMeanie]

That personal exemption makes the whole requirement meaningless. "You are required to get your kids vaccinated - unless you don't want to."

Frankly, so does the religious exemption. It's super-easy to start your own church and you don't even need to have an officially organized and recognized church to claim religious exemptions for stuff. People could start the "24-Hour Church Of Antivax" [1] and claim religious exemption as easily as the personal exemption.

[1] A play on my favorite church, which offered legal weddings for $25 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_Hour_Church_of_Elvis

[SeattleUte]

My brother packed up his family and moved to Hawaii, from California, because California requires vaccines to enroll kids into school. His wife is an anti-vaxxer because she doesn't want her kids to get the autism.

Vaccines don't cause autism.

[BigFatMeanie]

Vaccines don't cause autism.

Apparently they do damage one's snark detectors though.

[Moliere]

My MiL won't be getting the vaccine...well that's what she told me a month ago. She's also a DoTerra-ist and I bet that ven diagram overlaps a lot.

[Jeff Lebowski]

My MiL won't be getting the vaccine...well that's what she told me a month ago. She's also a DoTerra-ist and I bet that ven diagram overlaps a lot.

I bet the Venn diagram for anti-mask and anti-vaxx is close to a perfect circle.

[USUC]

It's interesting to me how relatively prominent the anti-vaccine sentiment is among mormons. I don't remember this sentiment among the good folks of SLC while I was growing up, but from what my brother tells me it is relatively wide-spread among educated mormons and the poorly educated (I love the poorly educated!).

I have a BIL who is Covid vaccine skeptic, I'm afraid to ask him if that applies to all vaccines. He lives in California. I am in the middle of Wasatch front suburbia, and I really don't run across many open anti vaxx folks. Maybe they secretly are. But even the lower SES families around us are quarentining and have their kids wear masks when they play outside. Maybe I'm just living in a pandemic bubble.

[frank ryan]

I have a BIL who is Covid vaccine skeptic, I'm afraid to ask him if that applies to all vaccines. He lives in California. I am in the middle of Wasatch front suburbia, and I really don't run across many open anti vaxx folks. Maybe they secretly are. But even the lower SES families around us are quarentining and have their kids wear masks when they play outside. Maybe I'm just living in a pandemic bubble.

Just look a littler harder. Antivaxxers flourish wherever you find "conspiracy theorists," and McNaughton paintings.