Question for Mindful

[Jeff Lebowski]

I recently read The Looming Tower, the Pulitzer Prize-winning book on the history of Al-Qaeda and the events that led to 9/11. I was interested to learn that some Islamic fundamentalists are ardently opposed to democracy in that it is not consistent with what they view to be the ideal form of government: sharia law. Some go so far as to consider anyone who has voted in a democratic election to be an infidel and worthy of death. (I may not be accurately portraying what I read - but that is my understanding)

I have always been curious about sharia law and how democracy is viewed in Islamic nations. Given the recent events in Iran, it is clear that democracy is deeply valued by most of the people there. Would you mind educating us a bit on this topic? Is there a tension between democracy and sharia law? Or do you simply support a modified version of western democracy? How common is it for someone to view democracy as anti-Islam?

TIA.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I recently read The Looming Tower, the Pulitzer Prize-winning book on the history of Al-Qaeda and the events that led to 9/11. I was interested to learn that some Islamic fundamentalists are ardently opposed to democracy in that it is not consistent with what they view to be the ideal form of government: sharia law. Some go so far as to consider anyone who has voted in a democratic election to be an infidel and worthy of death. (I may not be accurately portraying what I read - but that is my understanding)

I have always been curious about sharia law and how democracy is viewed in Islamic nations. Given the recent events in Iran, it is clear that democracy is deeply valued by most of the people there. Would you mind educating us a bit on this topic? Is there a tension between democracy and sharia law? Or do you simply support a modified version of western democracy? How common is it for someone to view democracy as anti-Islam?

TIA.

Everyone at the J. Rube, at least my year, had to take one elective class their second semester. You could choose between this class with Kif, Cole Durham or the one I unfortunately took, the Civil and Islamic Law Tradition. The class was a complete and utter waste of time. Instead of two semesters of Civil Procedure, all the students had this piece of crap elective class.

Anyway, from what I gleaned from the class, sharia law does stand in opposition to democracy. There is no reliance upon representative or direct democracy rule. The final say on most items of importance comes from the clerics who claim to get the law from the Koran. Simply put, you can't have both sharia law and democracy because if the rule by the people ends up being in opposition to the Koran, then the rule of the people violates Islamic law.

As you can tell from the preceding two paragraphs, after reading the book you mentioned, you probably know more than I do about the topic now.

[MindfulCoug]

I recently read The Looming Tower, the Pulitzer Prize-winning book on the history of Al-Qaeda and the events that led to 9/11. I was interested to learn that some Islamic fundamentalists are ardently opposed to democracy in that it is not consistent with what they view to be the ideal form of government: sharia law. Some go so far as to consider anyone who has voted in a democratic election to be an infidel and worthy of death. (I may not be accurately portraying what I read - but that is my understanding)

I have always been curious about sharia law and how democracy is viewed in Islamic nations. Given the recent events in Iran, it is clear that democracy is deeply valued by most of the people there. Would you mind educating us a bit on this topic? Is there a tension between democracy and sharia law? Or do you simply support a modified version of western democracy? How common is it for someone to view democracy as anti-Islam?

TIA.

I have been thinking about your question ,Jeff and since its has never been an easy task to "educate" people who already made up their mind through different sources,i have finally decided to offer my honest answer any way,so the rest will be on you to see whether this opinion is worthy considering into your already educated mind?

Despite the very specific role,the world sharia law,is being offered to play in the semantic world ,it has got plenty of impersonations in the objective world.

As far as i know sharia law in Shia indicates that as a Muslim you need to have a plan (adjust with Islamic teaching) for your life.You need to be either a Mojtahed (intellectually eligible enough to make the plan) or become a Mojtahed's follower.Once you became a Mojtahed ,you are not allowed to follow anyone but you.The process of becoming a Mojtahed will take a remarkable part of your life like any other specialty and has been excessively endorsed in Islam.

Applying sharia law in people's lives is what has aroused many controversies specially in western world,mostly because it would have a remarkable impact on Muslim's perspective toward democracy and freedom.Many Muslims do not completely approve western democracy even though they admire western breakthrough progressive approaches in different fields.

I am not going into the specifics but there is a world difference between what Taliban is asking its followers to purse from what has been offered in Shia beliefs.

The history of western intervention on behalf of democracy in the Muslim countries has made the moral credibility of them to pose as a promoter of democracy in Iran or else where close to nil.

Iranians had a democracy before Americans took it away.I am precisly talking about Washington orchestrated 1953 coup to topple Iran's democratically elected government,the first in the middle east ,and installed the compliant shah in power which lasted until Islamic revolution in Iran in 1978.

Iranians as illustrated in recent protests, have proved in being far more courageous in the defense of democracy than many people including most Americans.Like what an Egyptian political analyst says :"Watching Iranians pouring on the streets for Arabs is like watching porn for who cannot have sex."

Looking at the numbers would reveal some interesting facts about exercising democracy in the world .Iran is the only country which has held ten presidential elections within thirty years of its revolution.

The bottom line is Islam has introduced a different model of democracy which is fascinating in many Muslims and non Muslims eyes but I will frankly admit that democracy in Iran has yet a long way to reach its proper place.

I personally see the recent crisis as a date for our thirty year revolution to finally meet democracy and celebrate its marriage. Amen.

[MindfulCoug]

Everyone at the J. Rube, at least my year, had to take one elective class their second semester. You could choose between this class with Kif, Cole Durham or the one I unfortunately took, the Civil and Islamic Law Tradition. The class was a complete and utter waste of time. Instead of two semesters of Civil Procedure, all the students had this piece of crap elective class.

Anyway, from what I gleaned from the class, sharia law does stand in opposition to democracy. There is no reliance upon representative or direct democracy rule. The final say on most items of importance comes from the clerics who claim to get the law from the Koran. Simply put, you can't have both sharia law and democracy because if the rule by the people ends up being in opposition to the Koran, then the rule of the people violates Islamic law.

As you can tell from the preceding two paragraphs, after reading the book you mentioned, you probably know more than I do about the topic now.

Have you thought about the life after democracy?

[wuapinmon]

Iranians as illustrated in recent protests, have proved in being far more courageous in the defense of democracy than many people including most Americans.

Oh good grief. Get over yourself.

[MindfulCoug]

Oh good grief. Get over yourself.

I am going to be sanguine here and take that as a "your people rock" kinda expression.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Thanks.

Applying sharia law in people's lives is what has aroused many controversies specially in western world,mostly because it would have a remarkable impact on Muslim's perspective toward democracy and freedom.Many Muslims do not completely approve western democracy even though they admire western breakthrough progressive approaches in different fields.

I am not going into the specifics but there is a world difference between what Taliban is asking its followers to purse from what has been offered in Shia beliefs.

This is the part that interests me. Can you expound a little more?

The history of western intervention on behalf of democracy in the Muslim countries has made the moral credibility of them to pose as a promoter of democracy in Iran or else where close to nil.

Sorry. We only like pro-western/pro-Israeli democracies.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I am going to be sanguine here and take that as a "your people rock" kinda expression.

BTW, that was very funny.

[MindfulCoug]

Thanks.This is the part that interests me. Can you expound a little more?Sorry. We only like pro-western/pro-Israeli democracies.

Since i thought i have successfully killed the thread ,i did not notice there was an abandoned demand which needed to be taken care of.My apology.

I am certainly not your best chance to educate you on Taliban mysterious (horrendous?)teaching ,as I never been subjected to or compelled to confront it.But what has been fascinating to me is that Taliban ideological and monetary sponsors do not even recognize Shia as Muslim nor believe in clarifying misconceptions through an intellectually face off debate.
Shia on the other hand would recognize them as Muslims who have hijacked Islam via misguided and misinformed teachings,yet advocate of the idea of religious discussion in order to stop feeding diversion monster.
I hope this little background would help you achieve a better configuration of the situation of parties involved.

As you may know ,followers of Islamic model of democracy and freedom would devise different approaches in dealing with these issues due to this very fact that Islam,while profoundly dignifying human being is not a human-oriented and man-centered religion.Therefor their strategies might not be perfectly correspondent with their western version,but remain reasonably comparable.

[SCcoug]

What's up with trying to break clay jars and why is it so difficult?

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[frank ryan]

What's up with trying to break clay jars and why is it so difficult?

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One of those officers looks like Wolfe Blitzer.

[BigFatMeanie]

What's up with trying to break clay jars and why is it so difficult?

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The people holding it are flexing. If the bottom of the jar was bolted to an immovable object, they could break it no problem.

[myboynoah]

Yeah, no doubt those guys got the firing squad.