What if Toyota buys GM?

[RobinFinderson]

It was an interesting idea I listened to today on KCRW's Left Right and Center. So what if the big three die, but get bought up buy Toyota and Honda? How bad would that be?

[RC Vikings]

Why would they want to do that when they are eating into their market share every year.

[RobinFinderson]

Well maybe not Toyota. Someone else then. The idea being that these companies, the employees and the products might be better off in more competent hands.

[Sizzle]

It was an interesting idea I listened to today on KCRW's Left Right and Center. So what if the big three die, but get bought up buy Toyota and Honda? How bad would that be?

It isn't like Honda and Toyota are tearing up the market right now either. Both Honda and Toyota were down 30%. While not as bad as GM, who was down 50%, it isn't exactly a number that would tell me that they are anxious to be buying another company.

The point is, nobody right now is excelling in this market. Everybody is just doing what they can to get by.

[TripletDaddy]

Why would they want to do that when they are eating into their market share every year.

If Ford were to die, there would be a definite play to acquire the critical F-series market. Those trucks are perennial top sellers in the US.

[The Wankster]

Well maybe not Toyota. Someone else then. The idea being that these companies, the employees and the products might be better off in more competent hands.

More competent as in getting rid of the UAW?

Toyota and Honda aren't exactly on fire right now, so I'm guessing this really has nothing to do with quality of auto, and more to do with the fact the UAW is not willing to admit that maybe paying retirement benefits to people who have worked for 20 years, and have now been retired for over 30, isn't such a great idea if you want your business to flourish.

Die big 3 die..........

Someone will come along after the death knell is over and pick up the rotting carcass and start producing cars people want, only without the demands of the UAW holding them down; maybe then they'll get it turned around, and not having to pay for rididulous demands will allow the companies to start actually making quality cars for fair prices?

[venkman]

I'm as critical of the UAW as anyone, but I don't understand cheering for the death of the big 3 so that the UAW gets their just rewards.

Yes, the big 3 provide jobs, but more importantly, they provide knowledge, engineering, r&d; things critical for a free, independent nation.

If the Big 3 go under, they're gone for good. Sure, maybe a foreign owner will buy them, but the knowledge, profits, etc. will be shipped back to the mother country.

[The Wankster]

I'm as critical of the UAW as anyone, but I don't understand cheering for the death of the big 3 so that the UAW gets their just rewards.

Yes, the big 3 provide jobs, but more importantly, they provide knowledge, engineering, r&d; things critical for a free, independent nation.

If the Big 3 go under, they're gone for good. Sure, maybe a foreign owner will buy them, but the knowledge, profits, etc. will be shipped back to the mother country.

Why would they be gone for good?

Surely you don't believe that some group of investors would come along and buy the scraps for pennies on the dollar and resuscitate at least one of them?

Don't believe everything they tell you on the news, there are some people who have capital out there and are just waiting for the opportunity to get rid of the UAW, and then build US Autos for the right price.

The best thing to do is let them fail, get rid of the rotting bloated fat known as UAW, and then succeed with right to work people who at that point will be desperate for jobs. Jobs that will pay well, but not at the expense of the companies succeeding.

[venkman]

Why would they be gone for good?

Surely you don't believe that some group of investors would come along and buy the scraps for pennies on the dollar and resuscitate at least one of them?

Don't believe everything they tell you on the news, there are some people who have capital out there and are just waiting for the opportunity to get rid of the UAW, and then build US Autos for the right price.

The best thing to do is let them fail, get rid of the rotting bloated fat known as UAW, and then succeed with right to work people who at that point will be desperate for jobs. Jobs that will pay well, but not at the expense of the companies succeeding.

Liquidation would be disastrous, IMO. The resulting collapse in market share from a Chap 11 or 7 wouln't likely be recovered. It would spell the end of the Big 3 as major players in the automotive industry. Any company that did re-emerge would be a niche brand, probably owned by the Chinese or one of the Japanese automakers.

I like Sen. Corker's plan. Bankruptcy-like provisions but without the Chap 11.

http://corker.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=NewsRoom.NewsReleases&ContentRecord_id=047433fd-ec4f-ae65-de32-b566a76767d2

[Pheidippides]

Why would they be gone for good?

Surely you don't believe that some group of investors would come along and buy the scraps for pennies on the dollar and resuscitate at least one of them?

Don't believe everything they tell you on the news, there are some people who have capital out there and are just waiting for the opportunity to get rid of the UAW, and then build US Autos for the right price.

The best thing to do is let them fail, get rid of the rotting bloated fat known as UAW, and then succeed with right to work people who at that point will be desperate for jobs. Jobs that will pay well, but not at the expense of the companies succeeding.

What, somebody like Cerebus?

[myboynoah]

Toyota and Honda aren't exactly on fire right now, so I'm guessing this really has nothing to do with quality of auto, and more to do with the fact the UAW is not willing to admit that maybe paying retirement benefits to people who have worked for 20 years, and have now been retired for over 30, isn't such a great idea if you want your business to flourish.

Somebody please 'slpain something to me.

I keep hearing that the Big Three are tied down by the pensions and other retirement benefits they are obligated to pay out under their agreements with UAW. If, via bankrupcy or some othere device, they are able to get out from under this, what happens to those pensions and benefits? Do they just dissapear? If not, who pays them? What happens to the recipients?

Or is this just a discussion to reduce those benefits significantly for future retirees?

[venkman]

Somebody please 'slpain something to me.

I keep hearing that the Big Three are tied down by the pensions and other retirement benefits they are obligated to pay out under their agreements with UAW. If, via bankrupcy or some othere device, they are able to get out from under this, what happens to those pensions and benefits? Do they just dissapear? If not, who pays them? What happens to the recipients?

Or is this just a discussion to reduce those benefits significantly for future retirees?

My understanding:

The latest contract with the UAW last year will move retiree health benefits from GM to UAW trust. This will be initially be funded by the auto makers. While still sizable (I think GM's first scheduled payment is $7b) it ultimately saves the automakers alot of dough. Of course, it doesn't look like GM can make that payment now. If the companies go bankrupt, UAW retirees don't get a dime from GM, but would be covered by the Pension Benefits Guaranty Corporation, or IOW, the U.S. taxpayers.

[Surfah]

I hate unions.

[RobinFinderson]

I hate unions.

The teachers union here in SoCal is what has guaranteed that teachers earn a livable wage. On the other hand it has also protected a lot of dead wood (bad teachers) and is a huge, expensive bureaucracy in itself. The Finderson home has some mixed feelings about unions, but on the whole, the income (pegged to cost-of-living increases) and benefits (modest HMO) make a huge difference.

[Surfah]

The teachers union here in SoCal is what has guaranteed that teachers earn a livable wage. On the other hand it has also protected a lot of dead wood (bad teachers) and is a huge, expensive bureaucracy in itself. The Finderson home has some mixed feelings about unions, but on the whole, the income (pegged to cost-of-living increases) and benefits (modest HMO) make a huge difference.

I am in your camp. If I were ever eligible for a union I'd join one. However, as a project manager that has to employ union workers I hate it. You think the UAW has the Big 3 by the balls, you should see how unions take advantage of the small guys.