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  • Congresspeople and reading bills

    I wanted to discuss this issue without exUte sniping at everyone and everyone sniping at exUte, so here's a new thread on whether congresspeople should be expected to read everything they vote on.

    Here's a post I made on my blog the other day:

    This isn't really a post about the healthcare debate. Rather, it's about the lack of debate going on in Washington about it and other important issues in our country these last few months.

    The financial bailouts, the cap and trade legislation and now healthcare reform are all being labeled as extremely, ridiculously urgent matters, and should be dealt with now now now. I feel this is dangerous.

    While the current administration is Democratic, this is not a Right vs. Left issue, as President Bush was one of the hurriers last fall. A major piece of legislative work, the Patriot Act, was introduced to the House of Representatives on October 23, 2001 and then voted on in the House on October 24 and the Senate on October 25.

    The American Clean Energy and Security Act (America's current version of cap and trade) had 300 pages of amendments added to it the night before it was passed by the House last month.

    Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke pleaded with Congress to quickly pass the $700 billion financial bailout last September. He argued that action was "urgently required to stabilize the situation and avert what otherwise could be very serious consequences for our financial markets and for our economy."

    Well, it passed, and here we are, with 9.5% unemployment and no one knows where we're headed.

    And just in the last few days, President Obama is taking to the airwaves, urging Congress to move quickly on healthcare reform.

    Obama has accused his opponents of playing the politics of "delay and defeat" as he urges Congress to pass legislation before it goes into recess next month out of concern that if the process drags on late into the year public and congressional support will further erode.
    Well, that sums it up pretty well, doesn't it? If the American people are given more time to learn about this reform and hear opposing arguments, they might change their mind about the movement. Best strike now while the iron is hot and the people don't know any better.

    Financial magazines and newspapers are pleading with us to take a closer look at what is being proposed. To be sure, these writers have a conservative bias, but they know what they are talking about. From the Investor's Business Daily:

    On Friday, the House Ways and Means Committee approved a bill that would radically change our current system and expand coverage for the uninsured. The action came a day after the head of the Congressional Budget Office said none of the plans under review would slow health care spending. None of them.

    Still, lawmakers and the White House press on, relying on GOP weakness in the House and a new veto-proof majority in the Senate. They're also relying on a lack of awareness that claims made on behalf of national health care may be mostly false. Among them:

    • America has a health care crisis.

    No, we don't. Forty-seven million people lack insurance. Of the remaining 85% of the population, or 258 million people, polls show high satisfaction with the current coverage. Indeed, a 2006 poll by ABC News, the Kaiser Family Foundation and USA Today found 89% of Americans were happy with their own health care.

    As for the estimated 47 million not covered by health insurance, 20 million can afford to buy it, according to a study by former CBO Director June O'Neill. Most of the other 27 million are single and under 35, with as many as a third illegal aliens.

    When it's all whittled down, as few as 12 million are unable to buy insurance — less than 4% of a population of 305 million. For this we need to nationalize 17% of our nation's $14 trillion economy and change the current care that 89% like?
    I'm not here to debate the veracity of the claims from either side. My point is that there is plenty of reasoned, intelligent opposition to what is happening, yet President Obama and others are hell-bent on ramming this thing through as soon as possible, and the consequences, both intended and not, be damned.

    I generally despise Washington for its inability to get anything done quickly or efficiently, but I've discovered that it's even more frightening dealing with a federal government that is moving at a breakneck pace. There is a happy medium between nothing getting done and where we are now.

    Can we find it, please?
    I posed some questions to PAC in the previous thread, but he somewhat dodged them. So here they are again:

    How much reading would a congressperson have to do every day in order to read every page of every bill they vote on?

    Would it help to give them two or three weeks to read it instead of two or three days?

    What else does a congressperson have to do in their day? The main job, as I understand it, is to be educated on the issues, read legislation and vote in accordance with the will of their constituents (most of the time). I suppose we can set aside some time for re-election campaigns and lunch, but really, isn't that all this job is?

    It bothers me that it is seen as normal and acceptable that congressional aides have the responsibility to read this stuff and summarize it for the person who actually casts the vote. How much power are we giving these people?

    I'm open to being completely wrong on this.

  • #2
    Nothing that costs the taxpayers $700 billion is so urgent that it shouldn't be perused (page-by-page), vetted, carefully analyzed & passionately debated before being voted on. It takes time.

    This obviously can't be done on all legislation, but it seems as though the reverse is true. The more impactful it is to us, the less scrutiny it receives --note the bailouts, stimulus package & now health-care as recent examples.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by mUUser View Post
      Nothing that costs the taxpayers $700 billion is so urgent that it shouldn't be perused (page-by-page), vetted, carefully analyzed & passionately debated before being voted on. It takes time.

      This obviously can't be done on all legislation, but it seems as though the reverse is true. The more impactful it is to us, the less scrutiny it receives --note the bailouts, stimulus package & now health-care as recent examples.
      Booyah!

      The exute folklore lives on! I love it.

      here's looking at you......

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Hallelujah View Post
        Booyah!

        The exute folklore lives on! I love it.

        here's looking at you......
        What the blazes are you talking about? Nowhere did mUUser mention you.
        "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill


        "I only know what I hear on the news." - Dear Leader

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        • #5
          Originally posted by il Padrino Ute View Post
          What the blazes are you talking about? Nowhere did mUUser mention you.
          Apologies. It was Mr. Potato Head who mentioned exute.
          Last edited by Hallelujah; 07-23-2009, 04:34 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by JohnnyLingo View Post
            I wanted to discuss this issue without exUte sniping at everyone and everyone sniping at exUte, so here's a new thread on whether congresspeople should be expected to read everything they vote on.

            Here's a post I made on my blog the other day:



            I posed some questions to PAC in the previous thread, but he somewhat dodged them. So here they are again:

            How much reading would a congressperson have to do every day in order to read every page of every bill they vote on?

            Would it help to give them two or three weeks to read it instead of two or three days?

            What else does a congressperson have to do in their day? The main job, as I understand it, is to be educated on the issues, read legislation and vote in accordance with the will of their constituents (most of the time). I suppose we can set aside some time for re-election campaigns and lunch, but really, isn't that all this job is? ...
            I know you meant no attack by this, just I mean none by this response, but I didn't fully answer your questions because they were either unanswerable or uninteresting. Consider that in each of the last two Congresses, over 10,000 bills were introduced for consideration. TEN FREAKING THOUSAND. And given the current lust for government involvement, it's a safe bet that number isn't going to drop much in the current Congress. Consider also that the bills are often really long (the House's health care bill is something around 1,300 pages long--big print and wide margins to be sure, but still making War & Peace seem like a short story). Even if one were inclined to read every bill requiring a decision of some sort, unless one were Evelyn Wood, the task would likely be impossible, and certainly impractical.

            Now don't take the easy way out and respond that you're only talking about bills that come to a floor vote. Most of the negotiatiing, drafting and revising take place in subcommittees, committees, and the hallways, so waiting until something actually hits the floor isn't an option much of the time.

            You seem unnecessarily hung up on whether a congressperson has actually read every word in every bill s/he acts on. Even if that's possible, it's a waste of time. They should have good assistants who provide summaries on which they can make a decision. (consider that the President makes decisions affecting world stability based on CIA summariies that may reduce complicated issues to a few pages, and W was able to parse U.S.-Russian relations by looking into Putin's soul).

            So how much time should a congressperson spend reading bills? Not very much, and the answer in any case really is uninteresting.

            Congresspeople also have a lot more on their plate than the tasks you described, but I'm unqualified and unwilling to provide a more thorough answer, in part because from personal experience I know a chunk of the other activities would only appeal to prurient interests, and I'll have none of that.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks for responding, PAC.

              So to bottom line it, even if a congressperson wanted to read everything they had to make a decision on, it would be impossible and impractical.

              How about this? How much of a bill should be read? Or are you saying the entire thing should be left to these good assistants?

              Comment


              • #8
                10,000 bills introduced in the last 2 Congresses?

                I'd like to know how many of those 10,000 bills were vitally important to the overall well being of this country and how many were a complete waste of taxpayer money.
                "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill


                "I only know what I hear on the news." - Dear Leader

                Comment


                • #9
                  When I was interned with the Utah State Legislature, there were very few Senators who read all of the legislation. The Senator with whom I was interned had me get a copy of every bill that he would see in committee or on the floor the next day and spent whatever time was necessary to read it all. It was often several hundred pages.

                  I had to chuckle a little whenever a Senator would ask a question about the bill, and he would say, "If you'll turn to page X and read line Y, you'll find the answer to your question is [Z]."
                  τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by il Padrino Ute View Post
                    10,000 bills introduced in the last 2 Congresses?

                    I'd like to know how many of those 10,000 bills were vitally important to the overall well being of this country and how many were a complete waste of taxpayer money.
                    Here's where to start looking:

                    http://thomas.loc.gov/

                    Let us know what you find.
                    τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Il Pad makes a good point. What if we required Congress to read only the huge bills, the ones that have massive impact on the country? See the examples in my thread... the Patriot Act, climate change stuff, healthcare reform, etc.

                      There's enough time to read those if we give Congress two or three weeks to get through each one, right?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JohnnyLingo View Post
                        There's enough time to read those if we give Congress two or three weeks to get through each one, right?
                        I don't vote for my congressman because I expect him to read through each bill. I vote with the expectation that he'll be effective while in office, hiring good people, spending time networking, listening to his constituents, etc. I'm not sure why you keep hammering at this point. I really would probably be annoyed if he was spending time reading bills (when he could have his staff give him a summary) to the detriment of these other duties.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by beelzebabette View Post
                          I don't vote for my congressman because I expect him to read through each bill. I vote with the expectation that he'll be effective while in office, hiring good people, spending time networking, listening to his constituents, etc. I'm not sure why you keep hammering at this point. I really would probably be annoyed if he was spending time reading bills (when he could have his staff give him a summary) to the detriment of these other duties.
                          If you think it's impossible to read every major bill your congressman votes on while still maintaining a good network, hiring good people and listening to you, then that's your opinion.

                          I just disagree.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by All-American View Post
                            Here's where to start looking:

                            http://thomas.loc.gov/

                            Let us know what you find.
                            I bookmarked that and will get on it. Unlike politicians, I want to know what's going on, despite legislating not being my job.
                            "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill


                            "I only know what I hear on the news." - Dear Leader

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by il Padrino Ute View Post
                              I bookmarked that and will get on it. Unlike politicians, I want to know what's going on, despite legislating not being my job.
                              Good for you. Here's a similar link to the Utah Legislature web page:

                              http://le.state.ut.us/

                              Parenthetically, I hear all the time how Utah's legislators are so out of touch with what their constituents want, but I doubt that those who so complain spent much time on these web sites. Anybody who wants to know what's going on up at the hill has ample resources and opportunity to do so. Here, for example, you can see what every bill file that each Senator has opened in preparation for the 2010 general session:

                              http://le.state.ut.us/asp/billsintro...p?Listbox2=ALL

                              Il Pad, you may be interested in the 10th amendment resolution Senator Stephenson is preparing.
                              Last edited by All-American; 07-24-2009, 05:14 PM.
                              τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν

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