Saudi journalist chopped to bits

[Commando]

Thanks for the response. I'll admit - I don't totally get it. I mean, I get that this is the "next step" to citizenship. And I'm not saying we should just not care about this sort of thing happening. I'm still stuck a little on the US "obligation" to people in that circumstance versus the obligation of the international community at large.

Maybe this is a fine line that makes little to no sense to you - but I feel like I'd be more agreeable on it if he had applied for citizenship and was in the process (and maybe he had/was), versus I know that there are some people who apply for residency but never intend to apply for citizenship. Typically because they are intent on retaining citizenship in their country of origin.

Maybe bc you don't really fathom how incredibly difficult it typically is to get residency. It's an almost impossibly high hurdle that impedes the vast majority of people from ever having any status here in the U.S. or becoming a citizen. Applying for your stupid citizenship is like getting new driver's license. And that reason you cite of people wanting to retain citizenship in their country of origin is very mythical. Of course they will always be citizens of their country of origin (except in limited circumstances where the home country doesn't allow them to do that.). I regularly counsel naturalized citizens to keep their passports up to date from their country of origin b/c they come in handy when traveling in that country.

And again- LPRs are tax payers, employees, employers, students, and reside here with every other relevant tie to the U.S. that naturalized citizens can demonstrate except a certificate of naturalization.

[Eddie]

The U.S. has a symbiotic relationship with its LPRs as well as its citizens. They are entitled to protections from the government they uphold, and could seek assistance from our government abroad if they needed it, just like a naturalized or natural born citizen could. He's one of us, period.

Thanks for the response. I'll admit - I don't totally get it. I mean, I get that this is the "next step" to citizenship. And I'm not saying we should just not care about this sort of thing happening. I'm still stuck a little on the US "obligation" to people in that circumstance versus the obligation of the international community at large.

Maybe this is a fine line that makes little to no sense to you - but I feel like I'd be more agreeable on it if he had applied for citizenship and was in the process (and maybe he had/was), versus I know that there are some people who apply for residency but never intend to apply for citizenship. Typically because they are intent on retaining citizenship in their country of origin.

[Commando]

Yeah sounds like there was no interrogation at all. They just wanted the guy disappeared and couldn't do it as easy outside of SA so the consulate was the next-best place. Whoops!

[BlueK]

It was just maybe a mistake...

Saudis May Admit Khashoggi Was Killed in Interrogation by Mistake

When you are interrogating with a bone saw sometimes you may slip and accidentally cut someone.

funny that even Ted isn't buying the Saudi/Trump explanation.

[BlueK]

Well as you pointed out they were pretty complicit in that whole 9/11 thing.

I think in 9/11 they were probably complicit or knew about it and did nothing to stop it, although it was ordered and directed by Bin Laden while sitting in Afghanistan. In this case it appears to have been directly ordered from the top of the Saudi government.

[Goatnapper'96]

I don't remember the Saudis doing something this brazen before. Maybe they have.

Well as you pointed out they were pretty complicit in that whole 9/11 thing.

[falafel]

I'm not trying to change who you are BlueK! Just keep doing you. I don't have a problem with any of your posts.

[BlueK]

Ok.

Quick, Mr. Trump, out the back door while BlueK is distracted!

I'm not who you are trying to distract.

And I'm not objective about BYU basketball either, so you can have a problem with what I say on that as well if you want.

[Commando]

I still don’t think this answers the original question.

The U.S. has a symbiotic relationship with its LPRs as well as its citizens. They are entitled to protections from the government they uphold, and could seek assistance from our government abroad if they needed it, just like a naturalized or natural born citizen could. He's one of us, period.

[falafel]

Is anyone in America "objective" about Trump the way you're trying to define it?

You don't seem to be either here because while you're not addressing anything I said about this particular incident, you seem to be running interference by trying to change the subject to me not being objective about Trump.

Of course I don't like him. So what? I find the apparent murder that happened and Trump's reaction to it to be troubling. Not liking Trump in general has nothing to do with that. A lot of people are struggling with it, including GOP members of Congress.

Ok.

Quick, Mr. Trump, out the back door while BlueK is distracted!

[BlueK]

We are not talking about one thing you've said. We are talking about all the things you say. Your thing on this board used to be BYU basketball. Now its just Trump, 24/7. Which is fine, discuss what you like. I'm just commenting on your particular slant. Its not objective.

Is anyone in America "objective" about Trump the way you're trying to define it?

You don't seem to be either here because while you're not addressing anything I said about this particular incident, you seem to be running interference by trying to change the subject to me not being objective about Trump.

Of course I don't like him. So what? I find the apparent murder that happened and Trump's reaction to it to be troubling. Not liking Trump in general has nothing to do with that. I don't see how any normal person wouldn't find the Saudi actions appalling, no matter under which president's watch it might have happened. And a lot of people are struggling with Trump's reaction to it, including several GOP members of Congress.

[BlueK]

No they wouldn't but they would likely not do a lot about it either is kind of the point. While the words and non-verbal cues from Trump are out of the norm the fundamental policy towards the Saudi's has been status quo for a very long time.

Saying that I do think that Trump's actions as the US President wrt being more pro-oil bizness will facilitate conditions where the Saudi's ruling oligarchs behavior will not be as glossed over and that the day will come will the US will take action against them.

I don't remember the Saudis doing something this brazen before. Maybe they have.

[falafel]

Give me a break. If someone else said the same thing I did you're ok with it, but you're not this time because I'm the one who said it? LOL.

We are not talking about one thing you've said. We are talking about all the things you say. Your thing on this board used to be BYU basketball. Now its just Trump, 24/7. Which is fine, discuss what you like. I'm just commenting on your particular slant. Its not objective.

[BlueK]

I never said Trump's reaction is normal (nothing Trump does is normal compared to previous presidents). My point is more broad - BlueK sees everything that Trump does as suspect, sinister and corrupt. He is incapable of objective analysis of anything Trump does. Trump goggles.

Give me a break. If someone else said the same thing I did you're ok with it, but you're not this time because I'm the one who said it? LOL.

[Moliere]

That's a redundancy. A green card holder is a Lawful Permanent Resident and a requirement is that you work and reside in the U.S. Lawful Permanent Residency is the stage from which you apply for citizenship. He's not just some foreigner- he's a U.S. journalist.

I still don’t think this answers the original question.