Obama's weird, mushy foreign policy views

[SeattleUte]

You'd best stick with the geopolitics of ancient cultures bordering the Mediterranean Sea.

I'll give you the playing to the audience argument. Not good form to come in and say, "We really kicked your asses!"

But discounting the U.S. contribution to the outcome of the Cold War is ignoring history. The continued U.S. presence is the major reason for Western European political and economic development post WWII. The Cold War was very much about the United States and it's willingness to expend resources to stay and stand against Soviet aggression, and not just in Europe. Your cute talk of "ICBMs" in Europe aside, the U.S., at great expense, provided the nuclear umbrella under which the free world could succeed "economically, culturally, artistically, intellectually, technologically, to such a spectacular extent." You haven't been paying attention.

I really don't think that this disagrees with anything I said. I think you guys are just insecure. Yes, the U.S. was a but for cause of all these wonderful developments, as I said. I noted (more succinctly) everything you said about the U.S. contribution. But the U.S. was not not the only cause of the progress of liberty. The people who personally lived the struggle at every level (as opposed to just sending armies and ultimately checks and missiles) deserve at least as much credit as we do.

All Obama is doing is spreading the credit around, which I think is a good thing. The world generally understands the U.S. contribution and there's no need to hit them over the head with it, especially in a diplomatic setting and speaking to school children. (BTW, most Russians hate Stalin and gulags as much or more than you do.) Relatively speaking, one could say the U.S. suffered least of all. But we didn't create Eastern Europe's problems either!

[il Padrino Ute]

This supports Obama's point. You don't understand any of this. Stay out of it.

Kiss my ass, you arrogant prick.

You think yourself so intelligent, but you're nothing more than a blowhard dickhead.

"Look at me. I'm more intelligent than you because I think so."

You're nothing.

[SeattleUte]

Brings it back to the Church in one paragraph! Well done!

Did I really type LDS? Wow. Must have been a Freudian slip.

[DU Ute]

This supports Obama's point. You don't understand any of this. Stay out of it.

Come on, SU. If CUFers could only post on topics they understood we wouldn't be able to enjoy your rantings on modern Mormon culture.

[DU Ute]

Did I really type LDS? Wow. Must have been a Freudian slip.

Freud probably didn't know what LDS stands for, but if he read CUF he'd be convinced that you wanted to make sweet love to it.

[YOhio]

This supports Obama's point. You don't understand any of this. Stay out of it.

SU, that was uncalled for. Not that I don't love watching a good Ute fight, but Il Pad doesn't deserve this response.

[il Padrino Ute]

SU, that was uncalled for. Not that I don't love watching a good Ute fight, but Il Pad doesn't deserve this response.

I can deal with SU's cheap shots, as it's more of a reflection on what kind of an asshole he is than what kind of an idiot I am.

If I misinterpreted what Walenska was saying, so be it, but I doubt it. Obama really downplays the US's effort in ending the Cold War, but had it not been for Reagan, the Cold War would have never ended.

If SU has a problem with me seeing that, he's a lot more stupid than I am.

[SeattleUte]

I can deal with SU's cheap shots, as it's more of a reflection on what kind of an asshole he is than what kind of an idiot I am.

If I misinterpreted what Walenska was saying, so be it, but I doubt it. Obama really downplays the US's effort in ending the Cold War, but had it not been for Reagan, the Cold War would have never ended.

If SU has a problem with me seeing that, he's a lot more stupid than I am.

Since you are only capable of grasping a single feature of a complex and multifacited series of historical developments, next time this comes up, just for variety's sake, you might post something on Harry Truman. All Reagan did was reinforce and reinvigorate the Truman doctrine laid out by Truman and his great cabinet. America had been following this course more or less since 1945. Richard Nixon was the greatest threat to it, among US presidents.

[il Padrino Ute]

Since you are only capable of grasping a single feature of a complex and multifacited series of historical developments, next time this comes up, just for variety's sake, you might post something on Harry Truman. All Reagan did was reinforce and reinvigorate the Truman doctrine laid out by Truman and his great cabinet. America had been following this course more or less since 1945. Richard Nixon was the greatest threat to it, among US presidents.

And since you are incapable of being anything other than a condescending asshole, why don't you just ignore my posts?

[SeattleUte]

And since you are incapable of being anything other than a condescending asshole, why don you just ignore my posts?

My failing in responding to your posts is following you into the mud. You've never done anything other than name call in responding to me.

[il Padrino Ute]

My failing in responding to your posts is following you into the mud. You've never done anything other than name call in responding to me.

Hi Mr. Kettle.

Again, you believe yourself to be so intellectually superior, that you fail to see just how arrogant you are.

As I said, if you don't like my posts, put me on ignore.

[LA Ute]

If I misinterpreted what Walenska was saying, so be it, but I doubt it. Obama really downplays the US's effort in ending the Cold War, but had it not been for Reagan, the Cold War would have never ended.

I haven't read the Walesa op-ed you link to, but I have read Havel and Sharansky. I guess I put more stock in what they have to say than in SU's posts.

[il Padrino Ute]

I haven't read the Walesa op-ed you link to, but I have read Havel and Sharansky. I guess I put more stock in what they have to say than in SU's posts.

It's just SU being SU. No biggie.

[LA Ute]

I think you're overreacting, and exhibiting some unfortunate chauvinism here. First, he was talking to Russian young people, for Pete's sake. College kids. You want him to lord LDS jingoism over them?

Huh?

Moreover, the Cold War, like WWII, was more about Europe and its history than the United States, if in fact any distinction can be made (it's you who wants to highlight the US role in this over that of any other nation).

Wrong. I just don't want the POTUS to minimize the U.S. contribution.

Not to discount the enormous US contribution to the progress of liberty in Eastern Europe and Russia; we were a but for cause of it. But hundreds of millions of Europeans died in WWII and its aftermath including the Soviet purges, and 500,000 Americans, virtually all soldiers, died.

NATO fulfilled its mission of containment and permitted Western Europe to flourish (Western Europe paid for it too, allowed ICBM's to be placed on its soil, etc.). But the evil Soviet Empire failed because the West (most of all Western Europe, only next door) succeeded economically, culturally, artisitically, intellectually, technologically, to a spectacular extent, and the Soviet system failed to feed, clothe, and house its people. Lest we forget, it was a triumph of liberty in actual practice, including capitalism, not a victory on the battlefied. And for that all citizens of the affected countries can be thankful and PROUD. It was their achievement as much as ours.

I do not disagree with a word you have said here. It would be nice if President Obama would be even as haltingly generous to his own country as you have been.

I agree with Obama, especially since he was speaking to Russian young adults.

Liz Cheney said it best:

The truth, of course, is that the Soviets ran a brutal, authoritarian regime. The KGB killed their opponents or dragged them off to the Gulag. There was no free press, no freedom of speech, no freedom of worship, no freedom of any kind. The basis of the Cold War was not "competition in astrophysics and athletics." It was a global battle between tyranny and freedom. The Soviet "sphere of influence" was delineated by walls and barbed wire and tanks and secret police to prevent people from escaping. America was an unmatched force for good in the world during the Cold War. The Soviets were not. The Cold War ended not because the Soviets decided it should but because they were no match for the forces of freedom and the commitment of free nations to defend liberty and defeat Communism.

It is irresponsible for an American president to go to Moscow and tell a room full of young Russians less than the truth about how the Cold War ended. One wonders whether this was just an attempt to push "reset" -- or maybe to curry favor. Perhaps, most concerning of all, Mr. Obama believes what he said.

If, BTW, you respond in any way to her surname, you will look like a fool. She was deputy assistant secretary of state and principal deputy assistant secretary of state for near eastern affairs from 2002-2004 and 2005-2006. She's more than her name.

As a bonus I'll add my Mormon critique zinger: The irrestible forces that brought down the Soviet Union are undermining authoritarianism, including mind control, everywhere. That's the irony of your post.

Huh?

[SeattleUte]

LA, I didn't say LDS jingoism. A moderator changed it.