Ocasio-Cortez, a poor [wo]man’s Bernie

[Omaha 680]

Good lord. AOC says the latest in long line of incredibly stupid and economically illiterate statements and we spend a couple dozen posts arguing about racism and sexism? This is why trump will get reelected.

[Omaha 680]

Btw she isnt a lightning rod because of race or sex. Maybe for some. But for the majority it is because she is riding a wave of leftist millennial angst, claiming that the solutions to a complex, generational economic and fiscal shitshow are simple and she knows what they are. When you promise BS like that but dont even understand the number of zeroes in the figures you state, you deserve plenty of ridicule.

[BigPiney]

Btw she isnt a lightning rod because of race or sex. Maybe for some. But for the majority it is because she is riding a wave of leftist millennial angst, claiming that the solutions to a complex, generational economic and fiscal shitshow are simple and she knows what they are. When you promise BS like that but dont even understand the number of zeroes in the figures you state, you deserve plenty of ridicule.

[Uncle Ted]

F

If you don’t see race-based nationalism as a marker for racism, I’m not sure we will find any common ground. White Nationalism (or Black Nationalism) is euphemistic speak for racist.
People deny racism to a pollster but does not mean all those people are not racist. Some of them are a likely lying, and more are unaware of their racism.

Why don't you just say "racist" instead of "white nationalist"? It would actually convey what you are trying to say better and save on typing.

I thought you were saying that Gorka and Miller (and others on Drumpf's cabinet) are loyal and devoted to their nation... and are white (which seems racist given who cares what color they are).

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Save that "euphemistic" speak for your liberal friends that have alternate meanings for words.

[swampfrog]

If you don’t see race-based nationalism as a marker for racism, I’m not sure we will find any common ground. White Nationalism (or Black Nationalism) is euphemistic speak for racist.

On that front, maybe your right, we might not be able to agree. Racism is a complicated word. Whether true or not in practice, the idea that a culture or ethnic group would like to preserve its heritage (however it chooses to define that), but does not believe its heritage is superior to other cultures would not be racist by the definition I provided earlier. I do see a problem that generally many people see race and ethnicity as the same, when they likely shouldn't. If a black person considers including a white person into the tribe, community, group, etc. then the concern is that the white person will bring "white culture" with them which could dilute or change a culture that has value to the black person, the same happens in reverse. Is that racism?

That topic is explored in detail here:

https://quillette.com/2018/05/14/the-racism-treadmill/

People deny racism to a pollster but does not mean all those people are not racist. Some of them are a likely lying, and more are unaware of their racism.

None of the data suggest that racism has been eliminated, only that it has decreased, and continues to decrease. It's less of a problem that it used to be. Looking at it from the other direction, let's suppose that racism is actually on the increase in America over the last few decades. During that same time period, there has been an enormous expense of time, effort, money, and other resources in educating the populace in tenets of diversity, inclusion, compassion, and acceptance. All designed specifically to reduce racism. Have they all been a colossal failure? As stated in the article above:

It seems as if every reduction in racist behavior is met with a commensurate expansion in our definition of the concept. Thus, racism has become a conserved quantity akin to mass or energy: transformable but irreducible.

[frank ryan]

On that front, maybe your right, we might not be able to agree. Racism is a complicated word. Whether true or not in practice, the idea that a culture or ethnic group would like to preserve its heritage (however it chooses to define that), but does not believe its heritage is superior to other cultures would not be racist by the definition I provided earlier. I do see a problem that generally many people see race and ethnicity as the same, when they likely shouldn't. If a black person considers including a white person into the tribe, community, group, etc. then the concern is that the white person will bring "white culture" with them which could dilute or change a culture that has value to the black person, the same happens in reverse. Is that racism?

That topic is explored in detail here:

https://quillette.com/2018/05/14/the-racism-treadmill/



None of the data suggest that racism has been eliminated, only that it has decreased, and continues to decrease. It's less of a problem that it used to be. Looking at it from the other direction, let's suppose that racism is actually on the increase in America over the last few decades. During that same time period, there has been an enormous expense of time, effort, money, and other resources in educating the populace in tenets of diversity, inclusion, compassion, and acceptance. All designed specifically to reduce racism. Have they all been a colossal failure? As stated in the article above:

If there are less self-identified racists but their activities have increased and public profiles risen, has racism really decreased?

Also white separatism or white nationalism is code for racist. Hell, some of them even talk about identifying that way to soften their image.

[Flystripper]

Btw she isnt a lightning rod because of race or sex. Maybe for some. But for the majority it is because she is riding a wave of leftist millennial angst, claiming that the solutions to a complex, generational economic and fiscal shitshow are simple and she knows what they are. When you promise BS like that but dont even understand the number of zeroes in the figures you state, you deserve plenty of ridicule.

so much this. I would feel the absolute same about her if she was a white male from rural Wyoming instead of a Hispanic female from the Bronx. It is astounding how little she actually understands. Honestly, I am not sure she even wants to understand the economic issues because it is off brand for her and her whackadoo base. I actually lean a little left on so many social issues and she is incredibly infuriating to me because there is no realistic solutions buried in her passionate rhetoric.

[Eddie]

On that front, maybe your right, we might not be able to agree. Racism is a complicated word. Whether true or not in practice, the idea that a culture or ethnic group would like to preserve its heritage (however it chooses to define that), but does not believe its heritage is superior to other cultures would not be racist by the definition I provided earlier. I do see a problem that generally many people see race and ethnicity as the same, when they likely shouldn't. If a black person considers including a white person into the tribe, community, group, etc. then the concern is that the white person will bring "white culture" with them which could dilute or change a culture that has value to the black person, the same happens in reverse. Is that racism?

Interesting question. Native American tribes all have to define what is required to be a member of their tribe. Some are pretty liberal, and no blood quantum requirement as long as you can show you are a descendant of a tribal member. Others are pretty conservative, for instance the Utes require the highest at 5/8 blood quantum.

But these are in place in order to, as you put it, preserve the tribes' heritage. Are they racist? Depending on who you speak to, maybe. Most tribal members don't see themselves as better or worse than non-tribal members, just different. On the other hand, there are definitely some who view themselves and their tribe as better than others.

I've talked to a number of people who don't necessarily see themselves as racist - and honestly in speaking with them they don't express a belief that they are better than people of other races - but who feel like with all of these movements focused on honoring the heritage of others, they too want to be able to be proud of who they are and where they come from. In all honesty, they are much better off celebrating a holiday from their place of origin than talking about "Anglo Pride" - or whatever. But I get that it can be somewhat awkward to express that pride in one's heritage if you aren't a person of color without it coming across as racist.

[frank ryan]

But for the majority it is because she is riding a wave of leftist millennial angst, .

She's a bomb-thrower for sure but outside of her district, what militant leftist angst is there?

[Eddie]

She's a bomb-thrower for sure but outside of her district, what militant leftist angst is there?

Bernie Sanders had an awful lot of support among that age group saying a lot of the same things she does in places outside of her district.

[swampfrog]

If there are less self-identified racists but their activities have increased and public profiles risen, has racism really decreased?

Yes. Though I will need to remove 'self-', racist attitudes can be measured over time through statistical methodologies. Especially since the measurements show a lot less.

From the above article again:

...racist attitudes that were once commonplace have now become fringe. A Gallup poll found that only 4 percent of Americans approved of marriages between blacks and whites in 1958. By 2013, that number had climbed to 87 percent, prompting pollsters to call it “one of the largest shifts of public opinion in Gallup history.”

Also white separatism or white nationalism is code for racist. Hell, some of them even talk about identifying that way to soften their image.

I agree that white supremacists would gladly hide themselves among groups of white nationalists. I will maintain that nationalism does not imply racism however. Being proud of cultural values, traditions, norms, etc. is not the same as racism. Wishing to organize to preserve such things is not racism. To be concerned about pollution from outsiders is a valid concern. Black Panther went out of its way to showcase this by having black actors voice the concern that opening Wakanda's borders could corrupt their society. Much of the movie was around how to manage this problem.

[falafel]

She's a bomb-thrower for sure but outside of her district, what militant leftist angst is there?

All of California.

[frank ryan]

Yes. Though I will need to remove 'self-', racist attitudes can be measured over time through statistical methodologies. Especially since the measurements show a lot less.

From the above article again:





I agree that white supremacists would gladly hide themselves among groups of white nationalists. I will maintain that nationalism does not imply racism however. Being proud of cultural values, traditions, norms, etc. is not the same as racism. Wishing to organize to preserve such things is not racism. To be concerned about pollution from outsiders is a valid concern. Black Panther went out of its way to showcase this by having black actors voice the concern that opening Wakanda's borders could corrupt their society. Much of the movie was around how to manage this problem.

Nationalism generally implies a superiority over others. White is also not a nationality. Anyone I've heard discussing being proud to be white is racist. Same as those whining about white genocide or a white homeland. I'm going to get past your didactic wall, but white nationalism is inherently racist. They think their culture is threatened by the presence of those who don't look like them.

[frank ryan]

All of California.

Knock it iff. You realize a lot of the seat democrats took from Republicans in California were won were by moderates? There wasn't some socialist takeover. AOC is an outlier.

Most of Bernie's chosen candidates lost in primaries.

[creekster]

Good lord. AOC says the latest in long line of incredibly stupid and economically illiterate statements and we spend a couple dozen posts arguing about racism and sexism? This is why trump will get reelected.

LOL. This is exactly right. To the extent Trump gets re-elected, this is the sort of thing that will allow/cause it.