Why anyond would want more government involvement in our lives is beyond me

[FMCoug]

They are completely incompetent. I've spent the last week trying to get my damn boat and RV registrered at the DMV. Different story every time ... 3rd trip back will be tomorrow. Wait forever, can't get a real person if you call ahead to confirm things. It's a mess. Every government agency I've ever dealt with is the same way.

Give the alternative between death and dealing with that for my health care, I'm not entirely convinced I wouldn't chosse death.

[Tim]

They are completely incompetent. I've spent the last week trying to get my damn boat and RV registrered at the DMV. Different story every time ... 3rd trip back will be tomorrow. Wait forever, can't get a real person if you call ahead to confirm things. It's a mess. Every government agency I've ever dealt with is the same way.

Give the alternative between death and dealing with that for my health care, I'm not entirely convinced I wouldn't chosse death.

This happens whenever I try and deal with anything even remotely non-trivial at my bank. And my insurance company. And the doctor's office. You lay the blame at the feet of the government without realizing that working with a private organization would likely be just as complex and difficult and aggravating.

Seriously, tell me a scenario where a private organization lets you do something as complex as registering a vehicle that will be on the road every day, appear in dozens of databases, be taxed, etc., without the complexity of the registration process you're experiencing right now.

[wuapinmon]

This happens whenever I try and deal with anything even remotely non-trivial at my bank. And my insurance company. And the doctor's office. You lay the blame at the feet of the government without realizing that working with a private organization would likely be just as complex and difficult and aggravating.

Seriously, tell me a scenario where a private organization lets you do something as complex as registering a vehicle that will be on the road every day, appear in dozens of databases, be taxed, etc., without the complexity of the registration process you're experiencing right now.

PWNED!

[FMCoug]

This happens whenever I try and deal with anything even remotely non-trivial at my bank. And my insurance company. And the doctor's office. You lay the blame at the feet of the government without realizing that working with a private organization would likely be just as complex and difficult and aggravating.

Seriously, tell me a scenario where a private organization lets you do something as complex as registering a vehicle that will be on the road every day, appear in dozens of databases, be taxed, etc., without the complexity of the registration process you're experiencing right now.

If I had a bank like that, I'd change banks (and I have). Same with doctors, etc. Granted the bigger an org you're dealing with, the more bureacracy. The govenment has no competition, thus no incentive to be more efficient and effective at what they do.

[FMCoug]

PWNED!

The fact that you guys accept such mediocrity and inefficiency as "how it is" boggles my mind.

[beelzebabette]

... 3rd trip back will be tomorrow.

I thought the DMV was closed on Fridays.

[FMCoug]

I thought the DMV was closed on Fridays.

You're right of course. It will be Monday. Heaven forbid should they keep normal business hours (or even extended ones to make it convenient for their customers). Oh wait, they don't have customers. They have subjects who HAVE to do what they say ... no other choice.

[YOhio]

They are completely incompetent. I've spent the last week trying to get my damn boat and RV registrered at the DMV. Different story every time ... 3rd trip back will be tomorrow. Wait forever, can't get a real person if you call ahead to confirm things. It's a mess. Every government agency I've ever dealt with is the same way.

Give the alternative between death and dealing with that for my health care, I'm not entirely convinced I wouldn't chosse death.

I agree, but Tim does have a point. Customer service is pretty scarce commodity in both the public and private sector.

[wuapinmon]

The fact that you guys accept such mediocrity and inefficiency as "how it is" boggles my mind.

Dude, you totally got pwned. Own it and move on.

You can change banks and companies all you want....it's always a hassle, wherever. Try and get an insurance company to take out your gallbladder some time.

[UtahDan]

We have friends who are stationed in the UK working for a government agency and she is about to give birth to their third child. She will be delivering at a local hospital.

She has been told she will need to bring everything necessary for after the baby is born including towels, hygenic items for herself, blankets, bedding, bottles, diapers, everything. Nothing is provided to them but a room that shares a bathroom with six other maternity "suites." Also, the have been told that they could be asked to go as early as six hours after delivery.

[Tim]

We talked two days ago about how long it takes to get things done at the Church, specifically around technology. Somehow I would imagine, though, that your feelings about the church's bureaucracy are different than your feelings about the government's bureaucracy. They're the *same thing*, though. Some things are just extremely complex and layered, and they have dozens of dependencies, and therefore they take a lot of time, money, and paperwork to manage correctly.

We just love to rip on the government, though.

FM, let me say that I really dig you and I hope you don't think I'm directing this just at you. I'm just trying to have a discussion here. You know I respect you.

[wuapinmon]

We talked two days ago about how long it takes to get things done at the Church, specifically around technology. Somehow I would imagine, though, that your feelings about the church's bureaucracy are different than your feelings about the government's bureaucracy. They're the *same thing*, though. Some things are just extremely complex and layered, and they have dozens of dependencies, and therefore they take a lot of time, money, and paperwork to manage correctly.

We just love to rip on the government, though.

DOUBLE PWNAGE!

[FMCoug]

Let's just take the boat for example. Here is the process Tim seems to think is just fine:

1. I call DWR to find out how to register my boat (in TX they do it, not hte DMV). They tell me it's the DMV

2. I call the DMV and wait on hold for about 20 minutes to be able to ask a q uestion. I tell them I'm from out of state and just moved here and need to get my boat registered and what do I need to do. They tell me to bring in the TX registration and proof of insurance and they'll get it taken care of. Do I need anything else? Inspection, etc.? No that's it.

3. I go to the DMV, take a #, wait 30 minute and get up there. Clerk is utterly confused at my Texas Parks and Wildlife registration because in TX they do boats that way. They call over the supervisor, try to figure it out, etc. Finally we're ready to proceed. Did you bring the boat with you? Yeah lady, I decided to hitch up my boat and bring it do downtown Provo during the Freedom Festival. Just for fun since nobody told me I needed to. Well you need a HIN inspection (hull identification number) by an officer. If you don't have the boat with you you can call your local PD and they will send someone out to do it. Or a Park Ranger can do it. Great. So I get the form and verify once again that if I bring that back filled out by a cop/ranger/whatever that is EVERYTHING I need. Yes sir.

4. I take the boat to Utah Lake State Park and have a Park Ranger fill out this form verifying the HIN.

5. 2nd trip to the DMV. I take the form along with everything else back in. Where is your title? I don't have the title, there is a lien. Oh well you need a proof of lienholder like a bill or letter from the bank. The title / lienholder had come up the first time but all they wanted to know was who the bank was. So I'm sunk that time too.

6. Come home, call my bank, they email me the letter I need in about 15 minutes (yeah the bank is just as inefficient as the gov).

7. So now I'm ready for trip #3. Oh wait, as BBB points out, I can't do this tomorrow. They are closed on Fridays.

And we wonder why our roads and waterways are full of unregistered vehicles.

I already took time off of work TWICE for this fiasco ... because heaven forbid should they be open late, have convenient locations, etc.

The sad part ... 99% of the above could and should be able to be done online.

[FMCoug]

We talked two days ago about how long it takes to get things done at the Church, specifically around technology. Somehow I would imagine, though, that your feelings about the church's bureaucracy are different than your feelings about the government's bureaucracy. They're the *same thing*, though. Some things are just extremely complex and layered, and they have dozens of dependencies, and therefore they take a lot of time, money, and paperwork to manage correctly.

We just love to rip on the government, though.

IF we had talked about such a thing, it would not have been in a public forum.

[Tim]

IF we had talked about such a thing, it would not have been in a public forum.

Good point.