Impeaching Trump: Make America Sane Again

[Jeff Lebowski]

Commando has done some very kind and generous things. I thinks he is a good person.

I love commando. Even the crazy version of commando.

[falafel]

Sounds like you guys all need to see a shrink.

[Eddie]

I've got plenty to go 'round. Don't you worry.


You are right, though. Some kids being assholes in maga hats or whatever doesn't move the needle in the bigger picture where this administration goes on TV and lies to us in order to install its xenophobic, anti humanitarian policies. I have otherwise smart people whom I've known and respected for a long time now arguing with me that a wall is a good idea, despite what empirical evidence and common sense suggests. Why do I even try?

I don't get it - the Native American dude walks into the middle of this group of kids, banging his drum in the face of one when the kid doesn't move, but it's the KID who is the asshole? Suddenly we expect the KID to be the grown up and not the "Elder"?

I do a lot of work with the Native American community here in Utah. I can tell you without exception, NOTHING like that has ever happened. Not ever. The Native Elders I work with are all very respectful. If there are kids or others who are acting inappropriately (like if they were doing a "blessing ritual" and some kid doesn't know the appropriate response) they respectfully describe what they are doing and why, and what the correct expected behavior is. And without exception, those present have met the expectations. Even those not interested in being there and not a part of things initially.

I'm having a hard time giving this guy the benefit of the doubt. He initiated a confrontation that wasn't there. With a group of kids. Singling out one individual kid in particular.

I don't buy that he was doing some peace blessing ritual to help things. Because if he was, why not explain to the kids what he is doing and why? The kid is getting reamed for standing there - but you have nothing to say about the ADULT who initiated it, began the confrontation, was also staring at the kid, and banging a drum in his face? Yeah - somehow that doesn't sound like any "peace" ritual I've ever been a part of or witnessed in the dozens of Native American rituals I've been invited to participate in.

[Commando]

I don't get it - the Native American dude walks into the middle of this group of kids, banging his drum in the face of one when the kid doesn't move, but it's the KID who is the asshole? Suddenly we expect the KID to be the grown up and not the "Elder"?

I do a lot of work with the Native American community here in Utah. I can tell you without exception, NOTHING like that has ever happened. Not ever. The Native Elders I work with are all very respectful. If there are kids or others who are acting inappropriately (like if they were doing a "blessing ritual" and some kid doesn't know the appropriate response) they respectfully describe what they are doing and why, and what the correct expected behavior is. And without exception, those present have met the expectations. Even those not interested in being there and not a part of things initially.

I'm having a hard time giving this guy the benefit of the doubt. He initiated a confrontation that wasn't there. With a group of kids. Singling out one individual kid in particular.

I don't buy that he was doing some peace blessing ritual to help things. Because if he was, why not explain to the kids what he is doing and why? The kid is getting reamed for standing there - but you have nothing to say about the ADULT who initiated it, began the confrontation, was also staring at the kid, and banging a drum in his face? Yeah - somehow that doesn't sound like any "peace" ritual I've ever been a part of or witnessed in the dozens of Native American rituals I've been invited to participate in.

So you don't believe a word of the NYT article? That's cool- we've already decided this isn't worth arguing about.

[Jeff Lebowski]

So you don't believe a word of the NYT article? That's cool- we've already decided this isn't worth arguing about.

You mean the NYT article that has since been amended?

[Eddie]

You mean the NYT article that has since been amended?

This.

I missed the initial reports and anger at the kid. Like I said - I work with the Native American tribes in Utah regularly and have a TON of respect for them and their elders. If I'd have seen the initial tweet and only that - of the smirking kid - then I would've been pointing my ire at the kid too.

But everything that has come out since that time points to the Elder being in the wrong. And I can't believe how he is doubling down on this - saying that he was afraid for his life. Seriously? So afraid that you walked into the middle of the crowd of kids? So afraid that you felt the need to get in the face of the one kid who didn't just move out of your way and bang your drum in his face? Of the three groups present during this incident - it is looking more and more like the high school kids behaved the most appropriate.

To be fair - reports I've read indicate that the Black Hebrew Israelis were truly horrible, and the majority of the Native Americans there just sat and endured their crap when it was focused on them - with the exception of a small group that responded in kind.

But I can't figure out why this guy Phillips felt the need to walk into the middle of the kids. I can't think of any of the Native Elders I work with who would EVER do that - seeming to initiate a confrontation. They expect respect, but they also give it. And because of their way of being, they get it. This guy wasn't giving any respect and as a result doesn't deserve any. He walks into their group, beats his drum in the kids face, initiates everything - and now he wants the kids suspended from school?

I get that the kid were wearing Trump gear and probably looking for some of what they got. I have no problem with people yelling stuff at them - and with them returning it in kind (staying away from the racist stuff, of course). But this was just dumb.

[Surfah]

You mean the NYT article that has since been amended?

Lol. This thing is so absurd. I can't believe that people continue to double down on this.

I listened to Rogan on this the other day and he likened social media to driving on the freeway. Getting into the car, surrounded in traffic you tense up. Someone cuts you off and you road rage and lose your shit. Social media is the same way. As you read shit through your timeline you tense up. Then some hot take makes you go bananas. I also liked the Atlantic article I believe that called the initial video a Rorshach test.

[swampfrog]

That's cool- we've already decided this isn't worth arguing about.

I remember you not being interested in my personal perception, which I respect, but I don't believe there has been agreement that it's not worth arguing about. If there is anything in this country worth arguing about, it's the perception and meaning of the polarity that obviously exists between political parties right now. This incident provides a clear foundation on which that argument may be fleshed out, but we first have to agree to the actual facts of what happened. I'm dumbfounded that this is not able to be done considering the amount of actual audio/video that is available.

[YOhio]

LOL! What a funny world. I love Ocho Cinco.

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[Jeff Lebowski]

LOL! What a funny world. I love Ocho Cinco.

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Please please please let this be true.

[frank ryan]

Please please please let this be true.

Roger Stone has been indicted.

[BlueK]

Roger Stone has been indicted.

True. And the indictment alleges that he was working directly with several people in the Trump campaign as the intermediary to wikileaks and the emails.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Roger Stone has been indicted.

Please please please let this stick.

[Omaha 680]

OK, what is the over/under on when this happens? I say 12 months into his term. Max.

So did you take the over?

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[Bo Diddley]

I think this is more like BYU to the Big 12. People will make a lot of noise, but it'll never really happen.

Sometimes I hate being right.