President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[Walter Sobchak]

From Judge Curiel's decision (quoting Justice Roberts):

“Court[s] are vested with the authority to interpret the law; we possess neither the expertise nor the prerogative to make policy judgments. Those decisions are entrusted to our Nation’s elected leaders, who can be thrown out of office if the people disagree with them. It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices.”

ouch.

[BlueK]

From Judge Curiel's decision (quoting Justice Roberts):



ouch.

I think a wall is a stupid idea, but I agree that the judge ruled based on the law, which is what he is supposed to do. He obviously has integrity and respect for the law, which the current president does not.

[Crockett]

I've already told you I did not vote for Obama. I am a Libertarian, not a democrat. I know it's hard for most people to get past the simplistic, binary, left-right thing. So bringing up democrats' bad behavior doesn't go anywhere with me. I choose to "waste" my vote every election (not that one vote ever decides it anyway) because I typically see both parties as pretty awful most of the time. I was disappointed in George W. Bush for letting his exuberance in trying to fight terrorism overtake his better judgment and start ignoring the law and authorizing warrantless searches. Then I was even more disappointed again in Obama campaigning on stopping such behavior only to ramp it up even worse when he got in office. But Trump takes everything to a totally new level not only when it comes to being wrongheaded about pretty much everything, but he combines that with corruption and sheer incompetence. He makes every president who has ever had the office from either party look almost as good as George Washington.

More simply put, this is about me believing in libertarian principles and Trump being the most anti-libertarian ever to hold the office. It's the very thing that makes him not able to resist praising dictators while insulting world leaders from free countries. Mock it if you must. We don't have to agree.

By the way, why can't Jared Kushner get a security clearance?

BlueK, you and I are more closely aligned than you think. The older I get, the more libertarian I lean. I share all of your concerns about the surveillance state. I am just more practical about my vote.

I do disagree about your statement that Trump is the most anti-libertarian ever to hold office. Obama was as Big Govt as they come. Trump is making progress on rolling back govt regulations, installing conservative judges that are more respectful of the Constitution, tax reform, reigned in an overzealous EPA, and a lot more. I think he deserves credit for that.

Where we differ is I haven't seen evidence of significant corruption from Trump and I don't think there was collusion with Russia. Maybe something else comes out on Trump, but I doubt it at this point. I think the big corruption was between Hillary, the DNC, some FBI leaders, and some higher ups in the Obama admin. I think they tried to help Hillary across the finish line and since then are trying to cover their tracks now that she lost.

BTW, I'd be happy to sit next to you in a bball game and listen to you talk hoops anytime.

[Goatnapper'96]

BlueK, you and I are more closely aligned than you think. The older I get, the more libertarian I lean. I share all of your concerns about the surveillance state. I am just more practical about my vote.

I do disagree about your statement that Trump is the most anti-libertarian ever to hold office. Obama was as Big Govt as they come. Trump is making progress on rolling back govt regulations, installing conservative judges that are more respectful of the Constitution, tax reform, reigned in an overzealous EPA, and a lot more. I think he deserves credit for that.

Where we differ is I haven't seen evidence of significant corruption from Trump and I don't think there was collusion with Russia. Maybe something else comes out on Trump, but I doubt it at this point. I think the big corruption was between Hillary, the DNC, some FBI leaders, and some higher ups in the Obama admin. I think they tried to help Hillary across the finish line and since then are trying to cover their tracks now that she lost.

BTW, I'd be happy to sit next to you in a bball game and listen to you talk hoops anytime.

I am with this guy except that I believe Trump is every bit as corrupt as the Clintons were. Perhaps that is the level every politician is corrupt but while I appreciate your not wasting your vote I just cannot personally vote for someone I think is so vain and corrupt. Too much about Trump convinces me the only interest he has in life is satisfying his personal vain ambitions and passions. While I did not like President Obama's ideology at all I think he had more of an agenda or goal other than just himself, I tend to put President Trump at the same level of vanity as I do President Clinton.

In any case I also think he represents us, the American people, a lot better than we want to admit. The issue is not Trump it is us and voting him out will do as much to solve our problems as instituting all of the gun control measures Wuap and his buddies in the Ivory Towers can come up with will do to solved violent mass casualties in America. Though, I do agree that the method of murder will have to change. Moving tax policy and the regulatory state to the right or left a wee bit every 4-8 years is not going to save us from ourselves.

[Northwestcoug]

BlueK, you and I are more closely aligned than you think. The older I get, the more libertarian I lean. I share all of your concerns about the surveillance state. I am just more practical about my vote.

I do disagree about your statement that Trump is the most anti-libertarian ever to hold office. Obama was as Big Govt as they come. Trump is making progress on rolling back govt regulations, installing conservative judges that are more respectful of the Constitution, tax reform, reigned in an overzealous EPA, and a lot more. I think he deserves credit for that.

Where we differ is I haven't seen evidence of significant corruption from Trump and I don't think there was collusion with Russia. Maybe something else comes out on Trump, but I doubt it at this point. I think the big corruption was between Hillary, the DNC, some FBI leaders, and some higher ups in the Obama admin. I think they tried to help Hillary across the finish line and since then are trying to cover their tracks now that she lost.

BTW, I'd be happy to sit next to you in a bball game and listen to you talk hoops anytime.

Small 'l' libertarian is the sexy alluring party for many conservatives. And it sounds like you lean that way. But drug policy is the one thing that seems to unite all libertarians. Trump has repeatedly shown his true colors wrt drug policy. He looks up to dictators who execute drug dealers, and has even spoken about bringing that practice to the US.

His affinity for authoritarian leaders is alarming to many libertarians. Does it scare you?

[Eddie]

Quit criticizing Trump or you will force GOP snowflakes idiots to support him, because they vote entirely as a reaction to criticism and have little free will.

I think you missed the point. The reason idiot voters will continue to vote for Trump, and even more so as more criticism comes to bear, is because they don't trust the media. They are fed up with the BS the media feeds them, and love that Trump thumbs his nose at them. As the media and Trumps opponents criticize him, they see that as him getting to them - and them being afraid of him. They are also tired of the same old party politics, so when Trump fights with the GOP that energizes them even more.

They don't give up free will due to Trump being criticized. But they support and vote for him as an expression of their free will and their version of a FaceBook "thumbs up" to him irritating the establishment.

...In any case I also think he represents us, the American people, a lot better than we want to admit...

This is probably true. Those that love him, feel like he represents them very well - and that the establishment has at best ignored them and at worst taken them for granted for years. Unfortunately, he represents enough of "us, the American people" to get elected. "We" support people who support the ideas we like and tend to overlook their faults, while focusing on the similar faults of those with opposing views.

[BlueK]

BlueK, you and I are more closely aligned than you think. The older I get, the more libertarian I lean. I share all of your concerns about the surveillance state. I am just more practical about my vote.

I do disagree about your statement that Trump is the most anti-libertarian ever to hold office. Obama was as Big Govt as they come. Trump is making progress on rolling back govt regulations, installing conservative judges that are more respectful of the Constitution, tax reform, reigned in an overzealous EPA, and a lot more. I think he deserves credit for that.

Where we differ is I haven't seen evidence of significant corruption from Trump and I don't think there was collusion with Russia. Maybe something else comes out on Trump, but I doubt it at this point. I think the big corruption was between Hillary, the DNC, some FBI leaders, and some higher ups in the Obama admin. I think they tried to help Hillary across the finish line and since then are trying to cover their tracks now that she lost.

BTW, I'd be happy to sit next to you in a bball game and listen to you talk hoops anytime.

Jared and Ivanka at high level jobs in the administration is a form of corruption. Neither has the experience to have any business filling any role like that. This is Banana Republicesque. Ivanka on a diplomatic mission to S. Korea to talk about the N. Korean situation? In what universe does that make ANY sense? Here we have a very important and strategic ally stuck smack dab in the middle of China and a wacko adversary to the north sitting on nuclear weapons it would love to use on us if they could get away with it, and we're sending Ivanka Trump on a key diplomatic visit to talk about these issues? How is that not freaking absurd?

And as far as her husband goes, now reports are that officials in multiple countries think Kushner is easy to manipulate using his business interests against him. His business is reportedly looking for someone-- anyone to infuse some much needed cash (like a billion dollars in the next year) to keep him afloat. I don't think we benefit from that conflict of interest that close to presidential decisions or national security. It's kind of amazing that his Father in law is the President, yet it is within this very White House that that people like Kelly and McMaster don't feel he can be trusted with a security clearance. Oh, and Omarosa what? First of all, who the hell is she and why was she hanging out in the White House? The amateur hour is mind boggling. Yes, go ahead and find other examples from the past if you must to keep sane, but that doesn't mean the present situation is ok.

Finally, the GOP Congress should be much less scared and actually stand up against some of the nonsense. What can Trump really do back to them if they do that? Not that much. This is where the leadership and clout of a Senator Romney might be able to do a lot of good getting his colleagues to grow a little courage.

[BlueK]

His affinity for authoritarian leaders is alarming to many libertarians. Does it scare you?

The best I can try to understand good folks like Crockett on this issue is that yes, in a hypothetical way the authoritarian impulses are scary. It's just that it's much easier to brush them off as Trump not really being serious about it or he won't be able to get away with it.

[BlueK]

I think you missed the point. The reason idiot voters will continue to vote for Trump, and even more so as more criticism comes to bear, is because they don't trust the media. They are fed up with the BS the media feeds them, and love that Trump thumbs his nose at them. As the media and Trumps opponents criticize him, they see that as him getting to them - and them being afraid of him. They are also tired of the same old party politics, so when Trump fights with the GOP that energizes them even more.

They don't give up free will due to Trump being criticized. But they support and vote for him as an expression of their free will and their version of a FaceBook "thumbs up" to him irritating the establishment.



This is probably true. Those that love him, feel like he represents them very well - and that the establishment has at best ignored them and at worst taken them for granted for years. Unfortunately, he represents enough of "us, the American people" to get elected. "We" support people who support the ideas we like and tend to overlook their faults, while focusing on the similar faults of those with opposing views.

Most of the BS in the media today is coming from Fox which has become a laughable propoganda source where almost everything is scripted to appeal to one person: Trump, and many of its hosts actually think their role is to be an advisor to him. It's the closest a joke like Hannity is going to ever come to being relevant. And Fox and Friends? That show is even more insulting to intelligence than Hannity, which says a lot. Not sure it's even as intelligent as average reality TV.

Actual case in point: multiple Fox hosts having stated that Mueller's team should all be fired and carted off "in handcuffs." Ok, maybe you can disagree with the point of the investigation. But saying they should be sent to jail reeks of third world authoritarianism where the crime is doing something to hurt our dear leader. That's BS and just plain bizarre for an American news source to advocate for that. It's also, IMO, grossly irresponsible and manipulative of a largely not so educated audience.

[Goatnapper'96]

The best I can try to understand good folks like Crockett on this issue is that yes, in a hypothetical way the authoritarian impulses are scary. It's just that it's much easier to brush them off as Trump not really being serious about it or he won't be able to get away with it.

I think folks are uncomfortable with Trump - at least those who really spend time worrying about it all. I think there are those who have faith in "the system" to keep that in check and I also think that many genuinely believe that the Clintons are every bit as corrupt and power hungry. In some ways I think his blatant corruption, or indicators of corruption, endear him to people instead of the more secretive way that say the Clinton foundation seeks to hide it. It isn't healthy for our country but folks who like Trump don't like Trump they like how much their other "enemies" dislike him.

[Northwestcoug]

The best I can try to understand good folks like Crockett on this issue is that yes, in a hypothetical way the authoritarian impulses are scary. It's just that it's much easier to brush them off as Trump not really being serious about it or he won't be able to get away with it.

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[Pelado]

I think folks are uncomfortable with Trump - at least those who really spend time worrying about it all. I think there are those who have faith in "the system" to keep that in check and I also think that many genuinely believe that the Clintons are every bit as corrupt and power hungry. In some ways I think his blatant corruption, or indicators of corruption, endear him to people instead of the more secretive way that say the Clinton foundation seeks to hide it. It isn't healthy for our country but folks who like Trump don't like Trump they like how much their other "enemies" dislike him.

I can definitely see this. I am no fan of Trump, but I did derive some guilty pleasure from the angst on the left in the aftermath of the election.

[BlueK]

I can definitely see this. I am no fan of Trump, but I did derive some guilty pleasure from the angst on the left in the aftermath of the election.

I understand it but it's part of the problem. The out of control hyperpartisanship is playing into the hands of the wacko fringes on both sides. And the more the major parties cater to the nutjobs, the more acrimonious it gets. It's starting to look like the Jaredites in the BofM where the only thing that matters in the end is beating the hell out of the other side at any cost, and eventually no one can really remember the reason for the hatred other than the last the last bad thing the other guys did.

[frank ryan]

I can definitely see this. I am no fan of Trump, but I did derive some guilty pleasure from the angst on the left in the aftermath of the election.

If CPAC is any indication, Trumpism is consuming conservatism. That’s not good for anyone. It’s a powerful emotional drug l, but it’s unhealthy for the country, and it is also based on a massive victim/snowflake complex.

[Uncle Ted]

If CPAC is any indication, Trumpism is consuming conservatism. That’s not good for anyone. It’s a powerful emotional drug l, but it’s unhealthy for the country, and it is also based on a massive victim/snowflake complex.

And if what is going on in California is any indication (with Feinstein and Pelosi being viewed as too conservative) then liberals have taken a yuge step to the left... What a great time to be a Libertarian!