The 2020 Presidential Election Primary Thread

[PaloAltoCougar]

... the Steele dossier, an established fraud that was hatched as political propaganda...

I take no issue with your takedown of Trump's opponents or your observations about the toxic political climate, but I wonder about this statement as I've seen it repeated many times Trump supporters. But is it a genuine fraud? What evidence is there that this is true? I'm not arguing, just questioning. I know the Cohen-in-Prague allegation has been proven false, and some of the other claims come from unverified sources and have been unsubstantiated, but several other elements of the report are demonstrably true and the bulk of the report has not been disproven, so far as I am aware. Fraud is a very serious charge that I know you wouldn't make lightly. I'm curious what your support is for this claim.

And then we come to this...

One refreshing thing about Trump is that he does not claim the moral high ground. He's honest about that much.

Coming at the end of an otherwise interesting and thought-provoking post, one can almost hear the record needle scratch sound effect. Has Trump ever claimed to be anything less than the very best at anything? Has he ever admitted to weakness or shortcomings? I know he has happily retweeted absurd claims that he is the most honest president in modern history, and that he has said he's never felt the need to seek forgiveness for anything. Seriously, were I in the White House Press Corps your last line would impel me to ask him if he regards himself as a moral president. I'd lay down money that his response would include, "I'm probably the most moral president in history." He just can't help himself.

Trump never claiming the moral high ground. Good one.
.

[Uncle Ted]

Some people from Ted's Twitter have been busy:


Far-Right Smear Merchants Try to Slime Pete Buttigieg with Bogus Sex Assault Claim






....



https://www.thedailybeast.com/far-ri...laim?ref=wrap2

Sh*t, I totally missed this on my twitter feed. I must be following the wrong people.

[Northwestcoug]

Candidate for a new signature quote.

I missed that the first time around. I agree, that's a great line.

[SeattleUte]

I take no issue with your takedown of Trump's opponents or your observations about the toxic political climate, but I wonder about this statement as I've seen it repeated many times Trump supporters. But is it a genuine fraud? What evidence is there that this is true? I'm not arguing, just questioning. I know the Cohen-in-Prague allegation has been proven false, and some of the other claims come from unverified sources and have been unsubstantiated, but several other elements of the report are demonstrably true and the bulk of the report has not been disproven, so far as I am aware. Fraud is a very serious charge that I know you wouldn't make lightly. I'm curious what your support is for this claim.

And then we come to this...



Coming at the end of an otherwise interesting and thought-provoking post, one can almost hear the record needle scratch sound effect. Has Trump ever claimed to be anything less than the very best at anything? Has he ever admitted to weakness or shortcomings? I know he has happily retweeted absurd claims that he is the most honest president in modern history, and that he has said he's never felt the need to seek forgiveness for anything. Seriously, were I in the White House Press Corps your last line would impel me to ask him if he regards himself as a moral president. I'd lay down money that his response would include, "I'm probably the most moral president in history." He just can't help himself.

Trump never claiming the moral high ground. Good one.
.

Okay, you win. The Steele dossier is just pure "fiction", quoth the Nation. Makes no difference to my point. https://www.chronicle.com/article/Is...Putin-s/241777

Trump purports to be a moral pragmatist. He is all about ends justifies the means, explicitly. This is in contrast to his enemies who claim a moral high ground based on abstract piety. See, e.g., Northwest Coug's post to which I was responding.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Okay, you win. The Steele dossier is just pure "fiction", quoth the Nation. Makes no difference to my point.

Okay, maybe now I'm drifting toward pedantry, but I don't think the dossier is "pure 'fiction'" either as much of the report is, in fact, accurate. But in the context of current American politics, I fear the definition of purity has lost a lot of its meaning. I'll move on.

[Northwestcoug]

Okay, you win. The Steele dossier is just pure "fiction", quoth the Nation. Makes no difference to my point. https://www.chronicle.com/article/Is...Putin-s/241777

Trump purports to be a moral pragmatist. He is all about ends justifies the means, explicitly. This is in contrast to his enemies who claim a moral high ground based on abstract piety. See, e.g., Northwest Coug's post to which I was responding.

He is a pragmatist on some issues. But the piety oozes on others. For instance, how he talks about late-term abortion.

[creekster]

Okay, maybe now I'm drifting toward pedantry, but I don't think the dossier is "pure 'fiction'" either as much of the report is, in fact, accurate. But in the context of current American politics, I fear the definition of purity has lost a lot of its meaning. I'll move on.

But what is your point here? There seems to be so much doubt around the Steele report that its value as incriminatory evidence, on its own, certainly, and also as an entrée into primary sources, is highly questionable. If one allows it is not a "genuine fraud" (which is a great phrase), as you have suggested, then what is it? What value does it have?

[PaloAltoCougar]

But what is your point here? There seems to be so much doubt around the Steele report that its value as incriminatory evidence, on its own, certainly, and also as an entrée into primary sources, is highly questionable. If one allows it is not a "genuine fraud" (which is a great phrase), as you have suggested, then what is it? What value does it have?

My point, however modest, is to reject those who insist the dossier is fraudulent or totally discredited; so far as I am aware, it is neither. If the dossier were merely a tissue of lies, let alone fraudulent, why hasn't the bulk of it been disproven? It's arguable whether it alone was enough to justify an FBI investigation, but with the other available evidence, it provided some support for then-existing concerns and inquiries already underway.

[SeattleUte]

My point, however modest, is to reject those who insist the dossier is fraudulent or totally discredited; so far as I am aware, it is neither. If the dossier were merely a tissue of lies, let alone fraudulent, why hasn't the bulk of it been disproven? It's arguable whether it alone was enough to justify an FBI investigation, but with the other available evidence, it provided some support for then-existing concerns and inquiries already underway.

Counselor, as you know, it's hard to prove a negative. But parts of it have been conclusively disproven, and Mueller mentioned it I think twice and only in passing in his report. On the other hand, Steele was feted in a long New Yorker article, etc. He along with Avenatti have been newfound favorite political celebrities of the left over the past year. I'm sure Steele would have received some mention and backing as a presidential candidate were he born in the US and a US citizen.

[Uncle Ted]

But what is your point here? There seems to be so much doubt around the Steele report that its value as incriminatory evidence, on its own, certainly, and also as an entrée into primary sources, is highly questionable. If one allows it is not a "genuine fraud" (which is a great phrase), as you have suggested, then what is it? What value does it have?

Apparently it has enough value to get a FISA warrant to spy on the other party's campaign... so there is that.

[Uncle Ted]

We only have 10 years left on Earth...

Embedded Tweet

So what good is it to get to net zero green house gases by 2050? We need to be partying hard our last years we have here on Earth (and then head to mars).

[Uncle Ted]

If Biden becomes the Dems candidate I hope they have a debate between Drumpf Jr and Hunter Biden:

Hunter Biden's Estranged Wife Claims He Spent 'Extravagantly' on Drugs, Alcohol, Prostitutes and Strip Clubs

Vice President Joe Biden‘s son Hunter Biden’s alleged drug use and infidelity was, in part, what led to his October 2015 separation from wife Kathleen Biden, she claims in divorce court documents obtained by PEOPLE.

Kathleen filed a new motion in D.C. Superior Court on Feb. 23 – just one week before it was publicly revealed that Hunter is now dating his late brother Beau Biden‘s widow, Hallie Biden – claiming that her ex has “created financial concerns for the family by spending extravagantly on his own interests” during their separation.

Kathleen alleges in the court documents that those interests include “drugs, alcohol, prostitutes, strip clubs, and gifts for women with whom he has sexual relations.” She also claims that the family (the couple share children Finnegan, 18, Maisy, 16 and Naomi, 23) has no funds to pay their bills because of Hunter’s continued spending.
[...]

https://people.com/politics/hunter-b...titutes-drugs/

Apparently, Joe's hardline drug policies don't apply to his kids..

'Double standard': Activists say Biden's hardline drugs policies didn't apply to his children's cocaine and marijuana use

During his 36 years in the Senate, Joe Biden helped craft some of the strictest anti-drug laws of the 1980s and 1990s. But drug reform advocates say his own children were able to avoid the brunt of these laws because they were white and wealthy.

The 76-year-old former vice president's daughter Ashley, now 37, was arrested for marijuana possession at age 17. Records show the prosecutor declined to pursue the charges. A decade later, a "friend" of Ashley Biden attempted to sell the New York Post a 43-minute hidden-camera video purportedly showing Ashley snorting cocaine. The police did not get involved.

Biden’s son Hunter, now 49, joined the Navy Reserves in 2012 after receiving two special waivers, one because he was three years over the age limit of 40 and another for a "drug-related incident when he was a young man." A month into his service, he tested positive for cocaine during a random drug test and was discharged.
[...]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/p...caine-offenses

On Hunter moving in on his brother's widow...

Hunter and Hallie announced their relationship in a statement to the New York Post‘s Page Six on Wednesday, with Hunter saying, “Hallie and I are incredibly lucky to have found the love and support we have for each other in such a difficult time, and that’s been obvious to the people who love us most. We’ve been so lucky to have family and friends who have supported us every step of the way.”

The former vice president and wife Dr. Jill Biden also said in a statement, “We are all lucky that Hunter and Hallie found each other as they were putting their lives together again after such sadness. They have mine and Jill’s full and complete support and we are happy for them.”

https://people.com/politics/hunter-b...titutes-drugs/

Doesn't it say in the old testament somewhere that if your brother dies you should marry his widow or something like that? I guess Hunter is just following the old law. Oh, well so much for the old law...

Hunter Biden splits from brother Beau’s widow Hallie

Hunter Biden has allegedly split from Hallie Biden — the widow of his late brother, Beau — Page Six has exclusively learned. The breakup comes two years after we first reported that the former in-laws were dating in 2017.
[...]

https://pagesix.com/2019/04/30/hunte...-widow-hallie/

"Enquiring minds want to know"

[Jeff Lebowski]

If Biden becomes the Dems candidate I hope they have a debate between Drumpf Jr and Hunter Biden:


https://people.com/politics/hunter-b...titutes-drugs/

Apparently, Joe's hardline drug policies don't apply to his kids..


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/p...caine-offenses

On Hunter moving in on his brother's widow...


https://people.com/politics/hunter-b...titutes-drugs/

Doesn't it say in the old testament somewhere that if your brother dies you should marry his widow or something like that? I guess Hunter is just following the old law. Oh, well so much for the old law...


https://pagesix.com/2019/04/30/hunte...-widow-hallie/

"Enquiring minds want to know"

Geez UT. Is there anything so sleazy that you wouldn’t post it?

You seem really worried about Biden.

[Uncle Ted]

Geez UT. Is there anything so sleazy that you wouldn’t post it?

No, this is good stuff. Think of it like Biden and his family are wanting to rent your house, you know the white one. You would like to know about their pets, drug habits, etc. right? To make sure they are the right ones for the house.

You seem really worried about Biden.

I am worried about the Dems... this could be very embarrassing for them.

[Uncle Ted]

Buttigieg help drive his own sister-in-law away from the democratic party... She must know something about Buttigieg and the Dems that we don't.

BUTTIGIEG’S SISTER-IN-LAW EXTREMELY CONCERNED OVER MATURITY LEVEL

The sister of Chasten Glezman – Pete Buttigieg’s husband – appeared on the Facebook page of the anti-dem #WalkAway movement, explaining why she cannot in all good conscience vote for her own family member.


A lifelong Democrat who voted for Obama twice, Erin Glezman switched sides she was forced to choose between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton in 2016. Glezman says she can’t imagine her brother and his husband in charge of the country. She wrote:

“The 2020 election is extremely personal to me because Pete Buttigieg is my brother-in-law, and I cannot imagine him and Chasten being the voice for our country. The maturity level and lack of experience has me extremely concerned.”

The post rapidly became one of the most liked comments in the #WalkAway group – a movement dedicated to Democrats who want to switch sides politically.

Glezman says that her vote for Trump in 2016 was really a vote against Clinton. However, since Trump assumed office, she has noticed lots of positive change for Americans:

“I have always considered myself an independent, but with favor towards liberals. I voted for Obama both terms, but could not vote for Hillary Clinton, so voted for Trump (though not my first choice). Since then I have seen a lot of positive changes Trump has made or is striving to achieve. I believe he really puts our countries needs first. I just cannot stand with the libs anymore, and don’t feel they are taking our country in the right direction.”

[...]

https://www.ccn.com/trump-wins-again...joins-walkaway

I am guessing it is going to be super awkward around the table at Thanksgiving this year.