Obama and Socialism

[KillerDog]

Maybe if self-defined "socialists" had not murdered over 100 million people in the twentieth century the word woudn't be so freighted. Smarty pants, have you ever consdiered what Nazi and USSR are acronyms for?

I know what they stand for. The interesting thing to me is the inability of regular people to separate the National Socialists' eugenics from their socialism or the USSR's socialist economic concepts from Uncle Joes dictatorial bent. In short, it wasn't socialism that made them murderers. I'm no socialist, I think socialism doesn't solve problems but socialism also doesn't murder people and send them to camps. Dictatorships do.

[JohnnyLingo]

Did you not read this post?

I did, but I see a difference between throwing a ton of money at GM and outright taking control.

It may be a small difference, but it's there.

And to reiterate, I didn't like it when W did it at the time, either. He believed the socialist rhetoric that the only way to save the country was to throw taxpayer money at the problem.

[KillerDog]

So you say this, and then say this?



Where did W oversee government takeovers of major US corporations?

LOL! If you think Bush left businesses alone, you weren't paying attention. He increased control every time he could. He set Obama up to take control of GM. He forced companies to take government money they didn't want so they would be under his thumb (see banking). He forced companies to do lots of things. If you truly condemn socialism, open your eyes and start looking for it. Drop the partisan bullshit.

[JohnnyLingo]

LOL! If you think Bush left businesses alone, you weren't paying attention. He increased control every time he could. He set Obama up to take control of GM. He forced companies to take government money they didn't want so they would be under his thumb (see banking). He forced companies to do lots of things. If you truly condemn socialism, open your eyes and start looking for it. Drop the partisan bullshit.

You may want to read the post directly above yours.

[SeattleUte]

I know what they stand for. The interesting thing to me is the inability of regular people to separate the National Socialists' eugenics from their socialism or the USSR's socialist economic concepts from Uncle Joes dictatorial bent. In short, it wasn't socialism that made them murderers. I'm no socialist, I think socialism doesn't solve problems but socialism also doesn't murder people and send them to camps. Dictatorships do.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I think here is a context where fears of a slippery slope are valid. See the Weimarer republic, the fate of Republican Greece and Rome. It's a lot harder to roll back government intrusion into private activity than to extend it.

[JohnnyLingo]

So after that tangent, here are my conclusions:

1. Obama IS a socialist, but that's really not so bad.

2. W was a socialist, too.

[TripletDaddy]

LOL! If you think Bush left businesses alone, you weren't paying attention. He increased control every time he could. He set Obama up to take control of GM. He forced companies to take government money they didn't want so they would be under his thumb (see banking). He forced companies to do lots of things. If you truly condemn socialism, open your eyes and start looking for it. Drop the partisan bullshit.

To put things in perspective, lingo just recently graduated college. That would make him about 24 or 25?

This means that he was about 16 when W first took office. He spent 2 years of W's term overseas and the rest of it as an undergrad, not really working and not really paying taxes (just like all of us when we were in school). He wasn't even born when Reagan took office.

At first I thought Lingo was gracing us with his poor attempts at trolling, but it is becoming more and more clear that he really doesn't understand the first thing about law, economics, taxes, politics, etc. I take him at his earlier word. He really doesn't know. And since he is barely out in the world, it seems that most of his politics stems from his mom and dad, as opposed to really thinking about/experiencing these issues.

This is not surprising. Lingo does not support Obama, yet has admitted to not really knowing much about his policies. Lingo is a xenophobe that shows no empathy when illegal aliens die in car crashes, yet he lives in a state that doesn't really have to grapple with illegal immigration to any remarkable degree. The list could go on and on.

[KillerDog]

You may want to read the post directly above yours.

I think taking control is taking control. It doesn't matter if the control is open and notorious unless you are trying to get real property rights.

[JohnnyLingo]

I think taking control is taking control. It doesn't matter if the control is open and notorious unless you are trying to get real property rights.

Fair enough. I had forgotten about TARP and the controls that came with it, among other things.

Fine. W was a socialist. So is Obama. Are we really okay with this?

[KillerDog]

Fair enough. I had forgotten about TARP and the controls that came with it, among other things.

Fine. W was a socialist. So is Obama. Are we really okay with this?

I'm not but my people have been outvoted for a long time by those who feel sorry for everyone else. Ever since FDR bullied the SCOTUS into telling businesses how much they could pay, we've been in trouble.

[JohnnyLingo]

I'm not but my people have been outvoted for a long time by those who feel sorry for everyone else. Ever since FDR bullied the SCOTUS into telling businesses how much they could pay, we've been in trouble.

Wait, how much businesses could pay? Or how much they could charge? You're talking about FDR's NRA, right?

[Swimmer]

So let's just establish what it would take for you to agree that Obama is a socialist, in the hypothetical instance that he is.

Does that seem fair?

That is a fair suggestion, and I am more than willing to attempt to do so, but I would truly like to know what is so wrong with moving in a more Socialistic direction? We have been living a life of capitalistic greed for many years and it hasn't seemed to work out very well. And NO, I do not want to live in a political environment of complete governmental control, but I see nothing wrong with making things a bit more equitable in this country. I am ready, willing, and able to take all the criticism that is most assuredly coming my direction.

[byu71]

That is a fair suggestion, and I am more than willing to attempt to do so, but I would truly like to know what is so wrong with moving in a more Socialistic direction? We have been living a life of capitalistic greed for many years and it hasn't seemed to work out very well. And NO, I do not want to live in a political environment of complete governmental control, but I see nothing wrong with making things a bit more equitable in this country. I am ready, willing, and able to take all the criticism that is most assuredly coming my direction.

It hasn't worked very well. You mean based on a very short snapshot in time.

Let's see. Over the past 60 years which has worked better. American Capitalism or European Socialism.

[JohnnyLingo]

That is a fair suggestion, and I am more than willing to attempt to do so, but I would truly like to know what is so wrong with moving in a more Socialistic direction? We have been living a life of capitalistic greed for many years and it hasn't seemed to work out very well. And NO, I do not want to live in a political environment of complete governmental control, but I see nothing wrong with making things a bit more equitable in this country. I am ready, willing, and able to take all the criticism that is most assuredly coming my direction.

I'm just saying I didn't see much of this before the election. I agree that socialism is merely another political school of thought. One that I disagree with, but just a collection of ideas. But if you ever accused Obama of being one back in September, you got shouted down instantly.

Today, it appears people are more willing to embrace socialistic change and treat it like it's no big deal. I respect that, but I'm looking for people who ranted against labeling Obama a socialist nine months ago and are now quiet.

[il Padrino Ute]

That is a fair suggestion, and I am more than willing to attempt to do so, but I would truly like to know what is so wrong with moving in a more Socialistic direction? We have been living a life of capitalistic greed for many years and it hasn't seemed to work out very well. And NO, I do not want to live in a political environment of complete governmental control, but I see nothing wrong with making things a bit more equitable in this country. I am ready, willing, and able to take all the criticism that is most assuredly coming my direction.

Define "a bit more equitable", please. When I hear that phrase, I interpret it as taking from those who have earned what the have and giving it to those who are not willing to earn it.

I will agree that capitalism can create gaps between the haves and have nots, but I tend to believe that it happens because the have nots in general are not willing to do what it takes to become one of the haves.