Election 2014!!!!

[Moliere]

Great! I am willing to educate you. Read this. The problems in getting his ID are described starting about 1/3 of the way down the page.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...P=share_btn_fb

The fact is, voter fraud is extremely rare and almost never impacts an election. There is one overriding objective of these new Republican-backed laws: discourage the poor and minority voters from participating. Shameless.

Not to jump on BYU71s back, but I find it amusing that Repubs as so pro-government when it comes to voting ID. I've said it before but the last thing I want is the gov't being the holders of who gets to vote and who doesn't. Setting age limits is fine as is requiring citizenship, but there are cheaper and more effective ways to control voter fraud (is it really a problem?) than to require everyone to get a gov't issued ID.

[byu71]

Great! I am willing to educate you. Read this. The problems in getting his ID are described starting about 1/3 of the way down the page.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...P=share_btn_fb[Quote/]




The fact is, voter fraud is extremely rare and almost never impacts an election. There is one overriding objective of these new Republican-backed laws: discourage the poor and minority voters from participating. Shameless.

Thanks for the information doesn't seem fair. Too bad you had to add your own personal bull shit claim to spoil it.

[byu71]

Not to jump on BYU71s back, but I find it amusing that Repubs as so pro-government when it comes to voting ID. I've said it before but the last thing I want is the gov't being the holders of who gets to vote and who doesn't. Setting age limits is fine as is requiring citizenship, but there are cheaper and more effective ways to control voter fraud (is it really a problem?) than to require everyone to get a gov't issued ID.

You are more than welcome to jump on. I asked for opinion.

[Moliere]

[Jeff Lebowski]

Thanks for the information doesn't seem fair. Too bad you had to add your own personal bull shit claim to spoil it.

Here is another one for you:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-ballots-cast/

A comprehensive investigation of voter impersonation finds 31 credible incidents out of one billion ballots cast.

Lots of GOP officials have openly admitted to the real reasons they push voter id laws. One example:

http://www.nationalmemo.com/pennsylv...-vote-in-2012/

So help me find the bullshit in my claim. Are these GOP officials lying?

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Not to jump on BYU71s back, but I find it amusing that Repubs as so pro-government when it comes to voting ID. I've said it before but the last thing I want is the gov't being the holders of who gets to vote and who doesn't. Setting age limits is fine as is requiring citizenship, but there are cheaper and more effective ways to control voter fraud (is it really a problem?) than to require everyone to get a gov't issued ID.

Voter fraud is most definitely a problem, but voter ID laws may not actually prevent much of it. Some on the GOP side are skittish about Cory Gardner's chances in Colorado -- and that's a mail-in state.

It's become more of an issue as there have been a few high profile, and important, elections decided by impossibly thin margins -- most notably Bush in 2000 and Franken in 2008. Franken ended up turning a 200 vote deficit into a 300 vote lead and he ended up being the 60th vote on Obamacare.

[Commando]

My favorite people are the right wing dick bats who, observing the unaccompanied minor immigrant crisis this summer, insisted it was Obama's doing (even though it was a delayed effect of legislation enacted by Bush in 2008) so that these people could rush the polls en masse and keep democrats in office. When I pointed out that non-U.S. citizens cannot vote or that person permanently loses all future eligibility to legally work, reside, or naturalize in the U.S., they always said, "That won't stop 'em!" GTFO. Like people are so incentivized to vote.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Here is another one for you:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-ballots-cast/



Lots of GOP officials have openly admitted to the real reasons they push voter id laws. One example:

http://www.nationalmemo.com/pennsylv...-vote-in-2012/

So help me find the bullshit in my claim. Are these GOP officials lying?

How are urban blacks less able to obtain free photo ids as opposed to lower middle class rural whites? What exactly are you inferring about blacks and their abilities? I don't know about you, but I'm confident that blacks are equally as capable of obtaining free photo ids as whites.

Do you realize there are urban precincts in Philadelphia that reported over 100% turnout? Most of the remainder of Pennsylvania has been trending more Republican, yet there always seems to be more votes in that Philadelphia banana stand for the Democrats. That's what the GOP guy from PA was talking about. Whether the voter ID law actually helps is another matter. The GOP state legislator was talking about preventing 110% turnout, not 100% turnout.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/201...op-complaints/

[Northwestcoug]

Great! I am willing to educate you. Read this. The problems in getting his ID are described starting about 1/3 of the way down the page.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...P=share_btn_fb

The fact is, voter fraud is extremely rare and almost never impacts an election. There is one overriding objective of these new Republican-backed laws: discourage the poor and minority voters from participating. Shameless.

Gregg Easterbrook talked a bit about this in his TMQ column today. He cites two studies that discovered only trivial abnormalities that could be called voter fraud:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/wa...anted=all&_r=0

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-ballots-cast/

Although the liberal tilt of those newspapers may cause '71 some angst, it looks like out of around a billion ballots cast, only a relative handful could be reliably called bonafide voter fraud.

Easterbrook says this: "Voter fraud is the Loch Ness Monster of politics -- lots of people say it exists yet no one can produce any evidence." I think he's right. Each and every election we hear the same thing about voter fraud. If it was more than a theoretical problem, even the more liberal hacks couldn't ignore it.

That's not to say there isn't room for discussion on ID laws, but the amount of wailing on the right is way out of proportion to the actual problem of fraud.

Edit: JL beat me to the Washington Post article.

[Jeff Lebowski]

How are urban blacks less able to obtain free photo ids as opposed to lower middle class rural whites? What exactly are you inferring about blacks and their abilities? I don't know about you, but I'm confident that blacks are equally as capable of obtaining free photo ids as whites.

Do you realize there are urban precincts in Philadelphia that reported over 100% turnout? Most of the remainder of Pennsylvania has been trending more Republican, yet there always seems to be more votes in that Philadelphia banana stand for the Democrats. That's what the GOP guy from PA was talking about. Whether the voter ID law actually helps is another matter. The GOP state legislator was talking about preventing 110% turnout, not 100% turnout.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/201...op-complaints/

Apparently, you didn't even read the article you linked. It is not 110% turnout. It is number of votes exceeding the number of voters who signed in at the polling station on election day. But the investigation was far from conclusive.

There may be innocent explanations: for instance, machine error or poll workers failing to make a log entry for everyone who walks in to vote.

...

Some of that might be explained by registered Republicans voting mistakenly on a machine’s Democratic primary voting template, or vice versa.

As for the difficulty in obtaining an ID, see the article I linked above. By all accounts, it most significantly impacts the urban poor. Which are disproportionately black.

[Moliere]

How are urban blacks less able to obtain free photo ids as opposed to lower middle class rural whites? What exactly are you inferring about blacks and their abilities? I don't know about you, but I'm confident that blacks are equally as capable of obtaining free photo ids as whites.

Do you realize there are urban precincts in Philadelphia that reported over 100% turnout? Most of the remainder of Pennsylvania has been trending more Republican, yet there always seems to be more votes in that Philadelphia banana stand for the Democrats. That's what the GOP guy from PA was talking about. Whether the voter ID law actually helps is another matter. The GOP state legislator was talking about preventing 110% turnout, not 100% turnout.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/201...op-complaints/

Maybe I'm misreading, but that article isn't saying there was over 100% turnout. In fact, I can't see how a voter ID law would help in this case. I'd think an independent auditor would actually be more helpful.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Maybe I'm misreading, but that article isn't saying there was over 100% turnout. In fact, I can't see how a voter ID law would help in this case. I'd think an independent auditor would actually be more helpful.

Singer said one of the three divisions she has so far personally looked into had a straightforward explanation. In north Philadelphia’s 20th ward, the confusion was caused by a machineassigned to the 11th division that recorded dozens more ballots than voters who signed in there after it was switched to a polling place for a different division, Singer said.
But in the other two divisions, she couldn’t find an immediate explanation. Singer said she also plans to investigate a handful of other divisions scattered around the city where, according to the data, there were “substantial over-votes” in the 2011 primary.

But as the GOP analyst points out in the article, it's very curious that so many precincts in Philly can get near 100% voter turnout.

But I agree with you and the author of that WaPo story that stealing an election via fake ids, or voting with no id, etc. would be a slow and clunky way to pull it off. But as I pointed out above, given the margins in 2000 in Florida and Al Franken mysteriously coming up with 500 extra votes in 2008, an entire election and critical legislation can hinge on just a few hundred votes.

Here's an example of what was probably a real case of voter fraud. It didn't involve people walking in and voting multiple times, it did require a complicit local Democratic party who was behind one long term incumbent as opposed to his challenger:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.1108812

[imanihonjin]

Great! I am willing to educate you. Read this. The problems in getting his ID are described starting about 1/3 of the way down the page.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...P=share_btn_fb

The fact is, voter fraud is extremely rare and almost never impacts an election. There is one overriding objective of these new Republican-backed laws: discourage the poor and minority voters from participating. Shameless.

So what are the chances that someone who really wants to vote and is not able to? I would be willing to bet that it is just as rare and just as unlikely to impact an election as voter fraud.

[imanihonjin]

Here is another one for you:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-ballots-cast/


Lots of GOP officials have openly admitted to the real reasons they push voter id laws. One example:

http://www.nationalmemo.com/pennsylv...-vote-in-2012/

So help me find the bullshit in my claim. Are these GOP officials lying?

Don't be a dunce. You can do better than this. A comprehensive investigation of voter impersonation would understand the possibility of a multiple of instances of voter fraud for any instances that were discovered. Also, because of the small value of a single vote or even a block of votes, dollars are not going to be spent discovering and prosecuting voter fraud. There is no value in that.

Also statements like “I think we had a better election. Think about this: we cut Obama by 5 percent…I think Voter ID helped a bit in that.” are not what you were hoping for when you claim that republicans want to pass these laws to suppress minorities and poor people from voting. Could it be that? Sure it could, but it could also be that these politicians see the left and what they are capable of in perpetrating voter fraud and therefore their efforts reduced the ability for dems to do so.

[imanihonjin]

My favorite people are the right wing dick bats who, observing the unaccompanied minor immigrant crisis this summer, insisted it was Obama's doing (even though it was a delayed effect of legislation enacted by Bush in 2008) so that these people could rush the polls en masse and keep democrats in office. When I pointed out that non-U.S. citizens cannot vote or that person permanently loses all future eligibility to legally work, reside, or naturalize in the U.S., they always said, "That won't stop 'em!" GTFO. Like people are so incentivized to vote.

Based on this study 14% of non citizens were registered to vote and 6.2% of non citizens voted in 2008.

http://projects.iq.harvard.edu/cces/home