The Hyperthermia Thread: Kids, Carseats, and Mortality

[Donuthole]

With the recent incident in Hurricane (Hurick-UHN for the unknowing), there is a lot of buzz in Utah circles on the topic. I didn't know the mother personally, but she's fb friends with a number of my fb friends, and I've seen her comments on fb at times in the past. Quite frankly, I'm a bit shocked to see so many people demanding "justice" and doing so with a very mean-hearted spirit. Not surprisingly, a lot of these people don't understand the not-so-subtle difference between intent and neglect. The topic comes up every summer, but I've probably read more about it recently in light of the local(ish) incident.

Here is a well-written WashPo article on the topic. Very much worth the read, though very gut wrenching at times. As acknowledged in the article, there are certainly instances where there is a criminal element involved that merits legal prosecution. Most of the time, of course, the parent's self-torture is more severe than any "justice" a judge or jury could issue. The arrogance of some people is quite astounding. Consider this quote from a prosecutor who took a case against a father to trial (and lost convincingly):

[The prosecuting attorney] was asked if he could imagine this ever having happened to him. The question seemed to take him aback. He went on to another subject, and then, 10 minutes later, made up his mind: “I have to say no, it couldn’t have happened to me. I am a watchful father.”

So what kind of people are these parents who leave babies in cars? What kind of animal is not a watchful parent? Glad you asked.

What kind of person forgets a baby? The wealthy do, it turns out. And the poor, and the middle class. Parents of all ages and ethnicities do it. Mothers are just as likely to do it as fathers. It happens to the chronically absent-minded and to the fanatically organized, to the college-educated and to the marginally literate. In the last 10 years, it has happened to a dentist. A postal clerk. A social worker. A police officer. An accountant. A soldier. A paralegal. An electrician. A Protestant clergyman. A rabbinical student. A nurse. A construction worker. An assistant principal. It happened to a mental health counselor, a college professor and a pizza chef. It happened to a pediatrician. It happened to a rocket scientist.

The entire article is well worth the read.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifest...a52_story.html

[Jeff Lebowski]

Heartbreaking.

I have known two people who backed over their toddlers in the driveway of their homes. In both cases everyone went out of their way to express love and concern and sympathy. I agree with you that most of these carseat deaths deserve the same kind of sympathy.

[smokymountainrain]

Heartbreaking.

I have known two people who backed over their toddlers in the driveway of their homes. In both cases everyone went out of their way to express love and concern and sympathy. I agree with you that most of these carseat deaths deserve the same kind of sympathy.

I also know two people who have backed over toddlers and killed them - one is a relative and for all intents and purposes, it ruined his life. I don't know anybody who has left a baby in a hot car, but I agree it's a fair comparison and either could happen or could have happened to any of us under the right (wrong?) circumstances.

[Commando]

It seems like a case like this is on the news every time I turn it on, whether the toddler/infant survives or not. I think among my top-tier greatest fears in life is killing a child by accident.

[Applejack]

I also know two people who have backed over toddlers and killed them - one is a relative and for all intents and purposes, it ruined his life. I don't know anybody who has left a baby in a hot car, but I agree it's a fair comparison and either could happen or could have happened to any of us under the right (wrong?) circumstances.

My uncle's lab partner left his infant daughter in the car while he was working. He was dropping her off at day-care--a break from the usual routine of his wife dropping her off--and just forgot during his commute. The guy was never the same. Truly one of the most tragic things that could happen to someone.

[San Juan Sun]

We need a thread devoted to awful things that happen to children.

When I lived in Phoenix, I was amazed at how frequently kids drown in backyard swimming pools. Despites fences, gates, pool alarms, etc.

Thanks for bringing us all downa notch Dhole.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I also know two people who have backed over toddlers and killed them - one is a relative and for all intents and purposes, it ruined his life. I don't know anybody who has left a baby in a hot car, but I agree it's a fair comparison and either could happen or could have happened to any of us under the right (wrong?) circumstances.

In one of the cases I know the marriage was over within a year or so. Yeah, that is something from which you never recover.

[SandYFan]

My uncle's lab partner left his infant daughter in the car while he was working. He was dropping her off at day-care--a break from the usual routine of his wife dropping her off--and just forgot during his commute. The guy was never the same. Truly one of the most tragic things that could happen to someone.

I 100% cannot understand this.

When I am directly responsible for my kids, it's the #1 priority in my mind the entire time. I know where they are, I know how they are doing. I do not forget. It's stressful, but it's second nature. I cannot understand getting absorbed in the sports radio talk I listen to on my way to work that I'd completely forget I had a kid in the backseat. It's crazy.

If this makes me an unempathetic asshole, then so be it.

[smokymountainrain]

I 100% cannot understand this.

When I am directly responsible for my kids, it's the #1 priority in my mind the entire time. I know where they are, I know how they are doing. I do not forget. It's stressful, but it's second nature. I cannot understand getting absorbed in the sports radio talk I listen to on my way to work that I'd completely forget I had a kid in the backseat. It's crazy.

If this makes me an unempathetic asshole, then so be it.

Meh, naive and foolish is probably a better description.

[Donuthole]

I 100% cannot understand this.

When I am directly responsible for my kids, it's the #1 priority in my mind the entire time. I know where they are, I know how they are doing. I do not forget. It's stressful, but it's second nature. I cannot understand getting absorbed in the sports radio talk I listen to on my way to work that I'd completely forget I had a kid in the backseat. It's crazy.

If this makes me an unempathetic asshole, then so be it.

Read the entire article I posted. It gets into the psychology of how it can happen to anyone. It also delves into your position (which is not uncommon--though it is naive), which is not so much the position of an unempathetic asshole as a it is a defense mechanism to distance yourself from this situation in an attempt to convince yourself that it could never happen to you.

[ERCougar]

Meh, naive and foolish is probably a better description.

Yup.
There is not a more attentive parent than my wife. Anyone who knows her would agree. And yet, we avoided this tragedy by pure and simple luck, nothing more.
We don't judge anymore.

[smokymountainrain]

Yup.
There is not a more attentive parent than my wife. Anyone who knows her would agree. And yet, we avoided this tragedy by pure and simple luck, nothing more.
We don't judge anymore.

My youngest (and last!) is old enough now she can get herself out of a carseat and open the car door by herself. I'm just thankful we never had an incident with any of our four. I imagine we've been blessed by luck a time or two as well.

[Paperback Writer]

Excellent article. To this day, I'm somewhat haunted by a near miss with my oldest child and hyperthermia many years ago. I had recently been given a major crisis to deal with at work - the small company I was a programmer for was about to lose one of it's largest accounts unless a deadline could be met. I stayed up most of the previous night working and was going on about 2-3 hours of sleep for about 3-4 nights straight. My wife was getting fed up with my job situation - we were new parents with demanding careers and I wasn't able to do my part with our child which made for more work for her. Since I knew I'd be working late again, she asked me to at least drop off our child at daycare on the way into the office.

On the drive in, I was on my cell phone discussing project requirements. My kid was asleep in his carseat in the backseat. Another phone call. I'm asked to attend a status meeting with management which is already in progress. I rush into the office and take a seat in the conference room. I was only in the meeting for about 15 minutes when an executive excuses me telling the group that the company needs me to continue programming rather than sit in a meeting. I go to my office. Where's my laptop? I must have left it in my car - usually I grab it from the passenger front seat on my way out of the car. Going to the parking lot, I'm worried that I left my laptop at home in my rush to get to the office.

I get to my car and find my child still asleep. Fortunately, he had only been in the car for about 20 minutes and it was still early morning. My laptop bag was stowed with the diaper bag next to my kid. I was lucky. From then on, I have always placed my laptop bag in the backseet even after all my kids grew out of car seats.

[Topper]

When I first moved to the desert, a young family had a car seat death. Both parents were devastated, and neither seemed neglectful. The DA debated whether to charge the mother, but IIRC, elected against it. In most instances, I would hope prosecutors use common sense and show compassion. Most if not all of us parents have neglected our children a moment or two, and only by grace, have our children escaped terrible consequences. I am glad it does not happen frequently, but ache for those parents for whom it has happened.

[Eddie]

My sister and BiL were meeting somewhere once - she was coming from a previous engagement and he was to bring the kids from home. When he arrived, she quickly realized that he was 1 kid short. He had left the youngest asleep in her carseat on the kitchen table. In getting everyone ready to go and the 3 other kids and their things into the car, the youngest had simply slipped his mind.

Luckily they were only 10 minutes away, and she was still asleep there when they arrived.

Obviously a different story of being left in the house versus in a car - but when routines change, when you are in a rush, when there are other things on your mind...some of the details can be forgotten.