On abortion

[creekster]

Which is invoked at times of emergency has a huge exception for conscientious objectors and will probably extend to women in the near future. Can the same be said of abortion?

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Well, no woman is forced to abort in an emergency, even at risk of their own life, and any woman who conscientiously objects to abortion can avoid it rather easily and birth control for men is available so, yes, the same can be said.

[smokymountainrain]

Men in control of women.

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Women in control of babies. When will the madness ever stop?!

[All-American]

Men in control of women.

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If you want to talk about subordination, guess how much more likely a female fetus is to be aborted than a male one. Or an African-American baby, instead of a Caucasian one.

[Topper]

Men in control of women.

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[All-American]

Which is invoked at times of emergency has a huge exception for conscientious objectors and will probably extend to women in the near future. Can the same be said of abortion?

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I'm all for giving babies a chance to object to their abortion.

[All-American]

The draft.

[Topper]

Which is invoked at times of emergency has a huge exception for conscientious objectors and will probably extend to women in the near future. Can the same be said of abortion?

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[Goatnapper'96]

Name an instance where society claims a superior right over a man s body.

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The draft.

[imanihonjin]

AA

I understand your point but you must admit determining when an unborn has rights that trump the mother s is difficult to administer given its floating nature.

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It is already being administered today.

[imanihonjin]

Forget the P&F example! It's absurd to call a fetus a "child". That's all I was pointing out.
I've given you plenty of meaningful distinctions between a fetus and a baby, namely the most important and significant physiologic that occurs during the entire process, save perhaps fertilization. I'm still waiting for you to provide me some useful alternative cutoff that constitutes an appropriate beginning of rights that would outweigh mother's right to abort a pregnancy, in what cases you would grant an exception and why. It's extraordinarily messy to do that (notice the people who actually work in this arena tend to be pro-choice, as they have witnessed just how complicated these situations often get--far more commonly than the 40 week abortion you keep wanting to legislate around).

Listen--I don't like abortion. I think it should be rare, and yes, that based on my gut feeling. But I also think it should be legal.

The Phineas and Ferb example was one of the reasons you gave as to why a baby in utero is different from one not. You have state that there are certain physiological differences between an unborn and a born child (which is obvious on some levels like breathing and fluid in the lungs) but haven't really offered any examples that are meaningful in determining when to treat a baby as a person or simply as a fetus.

[imanihonjin]

Imanihonjin must be disappointed. Here he is today, on two threads discussing some of the major moral issues of the day, offering solid critiques of those who disagree with him, yet no one will tell him just when a baby is a baby! Come on people, just give him the truth from on high and he'll be satisfied!

I'll leave it up to JL on the other thread to answer his well-reasoned objections to man-made climate change. But so far, no one has satisfied him...

Yeah, sorry if I just don't accept the baby has to understand Phineas and Ferb humor before being afforded any rights. Seems extremely well reasoned and thought out.

[Topper]

Is there conscientious objector status for a woman denied an abortion?

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[smokymountainrain]

It is an issue of a mother having the liberty to determine what happens to her body versus society claiming it has a superior right ro stop her.

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Unfortunately, at a certain point, she is not only determining what happens to her body, but is determining what happen's to a baby's body and ultimately that baby's life. Kinda sucks. If her body were the only body in question here, it probably wouldn't be such a polarizing issue.

[All-American]

Name an instance where society claims a superior right over a man s body.

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The draft.

[Topper]

It is a vestige of misogyny, men controlling the bodies of women. Indeed it is a form of slavery.

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