On abortion

[Jeff Lebowski]

Ok I’ll say it then. If the will of the people is acurately represented by these terrible laws, then the will of the people is morally wrong.

Are the European laws morally wrong?

[Northwestcoug]

Are you quoting the BoM?

Bro, the BOM runs so deep in my veins that even when I’m not intentionally referring to it it still comes out!

[Bo Diddley]

Ok I’ll say it then. If the will of the people is acurately represented by these terrible laws, then the will of the people is morally wrong.

Are you quoting the BoM?

[Northwestcoug]

Whether you think the laws are stupid or not is irrelevant. We are talking about the will of the people.

Ok I’ll say it then. If the will of the people is acurately represented by these terrible laws, then the will of the people is morally wrong.

[Jeff Lebowski]

The majority of those states' laws enacted have bullshit limits, most of them not grounded in any science or within reason given the current realities of health care availability. Witness the proposed Missouri law that criminalizes an abortion for even an ectopic pregnancy. They are overly restrictive, most likely because they could play to their base while Roe v. Wade is/was still in place.

I'm not arguing against the will of the people per se. But if you want a European-level of restriction on abortion, you need a European level of a social net.

Whether you think the laws are stupid or not is irrelevant. We are talking about the will of the people.

[Northwestcoug]

That is overly simplistic. The majority of american voters believe there should be limits on abortion. Thirty-nine of the 42 European countries that allow abortion limit it to the first twelve weeks of pregnancy.

All these states that have passed laws restricting abortion - they have done so via legislators enacting the will of the people.

The majority of those states' laws enacted have bullshit limits, most of them not grounded in any science or within reason given the current realities of health care availability. Witness the proposed Missouri law that criminalizes an abortion for even an ectopic pregnancy. They are overly restrictive, most likely because they could play to their base while Roe v. Wade is/was still in place.

I'm not arguing against the will of the people per se. But if you want a European-level of restriction on abortion, you need a European level of a social net.

[Jeff Lebowski]

The 'leave Roe v. Wade alone' contingent seems like a majority opinion. Are they fired up enough to vote in 60 pro-choice senators? Probably not. I mean they should, but it just seems like voter apathy has gotten worse.

That is overly simplistic. The majority of american voters believe there should be limits on abortion. Thirty-nine of the 42 European countries that allow abortion limit it to the first twelve weeks of pregnancy.

All these states that have passed laws restricting abortion - they have done so via legislators enacting the will of the people.

[Moliere]

A thousand times this. I don't know when I will be able to get back on Twitter.

When next week's new issue because the topic du jour.

[All-American]

because drawing a line would be arbitrary we can't draw a line? Isn't that what most every law does?

Very true. Line-drawing is an important part of the process of creating laws-- or, in other words, legislation. Which is what the legislature does.

What made Roe a historically terrible opinion is not the inherent badness of the law the Court created-- I'll set that point aside for debate elsewhere. The problem is that the Court created the law.

[Clark Addison]

As someone who is relatively ambivalent on the subject, I'm so annoyed that abortion will play an even bigger role in our politics for the foreseeable future. And it's not like the extremes on either side will ever be placated.

A thousand times this. I don't know when I will be able to get back on Twitter.

[Art Vandelay]

What do you have against YO?

Since moving to Utah he's not nearly as funny or acerbic as he use to be. He is obviously making his play to move up of the key-holder ladder of his ward/stake.

[Art Vandelay]

Disturbing because the opinion wasn't final. It's typical for a justice to circulate an opinion for further discussion and, occasionally, substantial revision, even occasional vote-changing, all of which must occur in camera to reduce outside influence, among other things. As others have noted, if the source is determined, that person's legal career is over or at least substantially diminished.

Based upon my advanced knowledge of SCOTUS (I read The Brethren, The Nine, and The American Supreme Court) I would assume it was a liberal leaning clerk. After reading those books, I was surprised how much of the legal legwork the clerks do.

[Northwestcoug]

The 'leave Roe v. Wade alone' contingent seems like a majority opinion. Are they fired up enough to vote in 60 pro-choice senators? Probably not. I mean they should, but it just seems like voter apathy has gotten worse.

[Bo Diddley]

Just was texting back and forth with a friend (obviously it's not YO) about this. Was saying: If you thought Trump, BLM or COVID brought out the extremists, wait until abortion become topic 1-25 again. The rhetoric and potential for violence will be a 100% worse, IMO

What do you have against YO?

[Bo Diddley]

Disturbing because the opinion wasn't final. It's typical for a justice to circulate an opinion for further discussion and, occasionally, substantial revision, even occasional vote-changing, all of which must occur in camera to reduce outside influence, among other things. As others have noted, if the source is determined, that person's legal career is over or at least substantially diminished.

Agreed. There's a process that is now muddied. Deliberations occur behind closed doors for a reason.