Same-sex marriage coming to Utah

[TripletDaddy]

Wow, really? Was this an official document read to the Priesthood/RS or is there a chance the presiding priesthood holder spoke on his own opinion. This Prop 8 thing was a total mess. I've heard so many different things from family and friends living in California.

in fairness, there were directives coming from the very top down the chain. This smear campaign forced a lot of otherwise good people/leaders into positions that were uncomfortable or even undesirable. It became such a focal point for awhile at Church that it became much of what we even talked about at all times, made even more combative by inappropriately hostile responses from some of the more militant pro-gay marriage demonstrators. I had several close family friends tell me in confidence that they felt really uncomfortable speaking such things from the pulpit in a position of authority, but that they felt pressure to do so and feared discipline if they spoke their conscience.

Church should not have been a place to discuss "prop 8" as political legislation and strategy....especially when it came to passing out sign up sheets for people to go door to door, stand on freeway overpasses or street corners with signs, or blanketing parking lots. All of these things, and more, happened at Church. I hated all of it, especially the pious pressure tactics put on people that were opposed to such antics. In retrospect, if I were one of the LA Ute types that were chosen to head up either PR or other messaging for the Church, I would feel frustrated and embarrassed for having participated in it. The social arguments being championed as "support" for Prop 8 were ridiculous even then, but downright embarrassing today.

My wife donated because we were asked to do so and she really felt a conviction to "protect marriage." She and I discussed it and decided mutually that any donation would be in her name only. When she explained to our Bishop we explained that I was abstaining and was opposed. He understood and thanked us anyway.

Several years later and my wife's stance on the issue has changed entirely. Recent comments by Church leadership about similarly thorny social issues have only reinforced our feeling that we are on the right side of the line on this matter. In the years to come, there will be lots of people that will deny their own participation in the bizarre Prop 8 antics coordinated by local and national Church leadership, much like you can't find a single person today willing to admit to supporting the priesthood ban. But I can say with a clear conscience that I was opposed and did nothing to support it. I voted against it. And I am hopeful that we wont see anymore political action campaigns at Church again.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Judge Shelby deliberating on the stay. Should issue a ruling this afternoon. In the meantime, some counties are giving out marriage licenses and some are refusing (including Utah county of course). Fascinating to watch.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57...-stay.html.csp

[All-American]

In true Christmas spirit, I'd like to apologize to any lawyer out there that I might have offended (except All-American).

Now could someone please tell me how conservative the 10th circuit is? I've been trying to figure it out, and I'm befuddled. All I know at this point is that there are 5 republican appointees, 5 democrat appointees, and 2 open seats that have been blocked by republican senators.

I forgive you anyway. So there.

As for the 10th, it really doesn't matter. You only really care about which three get tabbed, and even then, it is pretty irrelevant since this thing will be on the SCOTUS fast track.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Judge Shelby deliberating on the stay. Should issue a ruling this afternoon. In the meantime, some counties are giving out marriage licenses and some are refusing (including Utah county of course). Fascinating to watch.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57...-stay.html.csp

Are the counties refusing to give out licenses in contempt of court?

"Right now there is a federal court order that stops the state from enforcing Amendment Three," he said. "County clerks, anyone in the state, is bound to comply with a federal court order. If they refuse to issue a license to a same-sex couple, they are in contempt of court."

Any attorneys like to wade in here?

[smokymountainrain]

Judge Shelby deliberating on the stay. Should issue a ruling this afternoon. In the meantime, some counties are giving out marriage licenses and some are refusing (including Utah county of course). Fascinating to watch.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57...-stay.html.csp

I hope like hell he denies the stay. Not only for the gay couples of the state, but just to see how the state would proceed from there. Would those counties, such as Utah County, give in and start to issue licenses?

[Jeff Lebowski]

I hope like hell he denies the stay. Not only for the gay couples of the state, but just to see how the state would proceed from there. Would those counties, such as Utah County, give in and start to issue licenses?

I agree. Partly to see the theatrics, but mainly because this war is over so let's just let these folks marry and move on with their lives. This is like calling time outs when your team is down by 40 points with two minutes left in the game.

[Uncle Ted]

Judge Shelby deliberating on the stay. Should issue a ruling this afternoon. In the meantime, some counties are giving out marriage licenses and some are refusing (including Utah county of course). Fascinating to watch.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57...-stay.html.csp

Remind me why the government should be involved with selling marriage licenses again?

[byu71]

I hope like hell he denies the stay. Not only for the gay couples of the state, but just to see how the state would proceed from there. Would those counties, such as Utah County, give in and start to issue licenses?

Yea, a little more chaos in the State and people calling each other names would be fun. Do you live here by the way?

I would like to see it moved through the appeal process ASAP to find out if this judge is a visionary or an absolute dumb ass.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Yea, a little more chaos in the State and people calling each other names would be fun. Do you live here by the way?

That will happen either way, amigo.

I would like to see it moved through the appeal process ASAP to find out if this judge is a visionary or an absolute dumb ass.

This ruling does not affect the speed of the appeal process. It just determines whether or not gays can get married while this moves through the appeals process.

[TripletDaddy]

I hope like hell he denies the stay. Not only for the gay couples of the state, but just to see how the state would proceed from there. Would those counties, such as Utah County, give in and start to issue licenses?

Would be funny (and ironic!) if Provo became the mecca for gay marriage licenses, simply to piss off the locals. Gay couples flying in from all over the country to get married in Provo.

[UVACoug]

Not sure why the county clerks think they have authority to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. Judge Shelby's decision declared a Utah Constitutional Amendment that prohibited the legislature from making laws allowing same sex marriage unconstitutional. He did not issue any injunction (there wasn't one sought). The only thing Judge Shelby's decision does is lift the ban on the legislature's right to grant marriage rights to same sex couples. The County Clerks' authority to issue marriage licenses comes from statute, and the statute clearly prohibits the issuance of a license to same-sex couples. The County Clerks' that are issuing licenses are doing so without any authority (Judge Shelby cannot give them authority). The officials marrying the couples are also doing so without authority. The statute clearly says that these marriages are prohibited and void. Not sure what the state is asking Judge Shelby to stay, because there is nothing in the order that requires the county clerks to grant marriage licenses, or gives them the authority to do so. The proper move for the state is to seek an injunction against the county clerks and a declaration that those marriages that have taken place are null and void from the state courts.

[smokymountainrain]

Yea, a little more chaos in the State and people calling each other names would be fun. Do you live here by the way?

Yes I do. Hey, if the chaos and name calling is in the name of doing the right thing, bring it on, baby!

[smokymountainrain]

Would be funny (and ironic!) if Provo became the mecca for gay marriage licenses, simply to piss off the locals. Gay couples flying in from all over the country to get married in Provo.

That would be so great. Please let this happen.

[Moliere]

In true Christmas spirit, I'd like to apologize to any lawyer out there that I might have offended (except All-American).

You're a wuss

[Jeff Lebowski]

BOOM! Judge Shelby denies the motion.