19 Firefighters Killed in Arizona

[The Fourth Nephite]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/arizona/free/20130701yarnell-hill-firefighters-die.html

God bless all firefighters everywhere.

[FN Phat]

What a terrible tragedy. My heart goes out to the families, especially those that learned of their loved ones being deceased by watching the news.

How much protection does the shelters give the firefighters? Apparently, in this case, it was not enough.

[dabrockster]

I grew up in Northern Az. Many of my friends in High School were "Hot Shots". They pay was great and it was a summer job. They would get chipped out to various fires across the west. NM, Colorado, Utah, Az, CA. etc. There is a possibility that some of these casualties could be teenagers as well (If they still allow them to work). Not just adult firefighters..

God Bless their families..

[dabrockster]

Another fire this past weekend in Rye, Arizona (Just south of where I lived in Payson). All Bikes shop was completely destroyed. I used to head down to that place just to walk around the acres of bikes there.

http://www.paysonroundup.com/news/2013/jun/30/all-bikes-all-gone/

l.jpg

l.jpg

[The_Douger]

What a terrible tragedy. My heart goes out to the families, especially those that learned of their loved ones being deceased by watching the news.

How much protection does the shelters give the firefighters? Apparently, in this case, it was not enough.

Those shelters are a very last resort type of thing. They can put them up and climb in to them if the fire is going to pass over them, but they aren't designed for you to wait it out for an hour or anything. The hope is that the wind is carrying the fire through the area quickly, you put up your shelter, the fire passes over you, and you pack it up and try to get out of there. Any extended amount of burn time around the shelter more than a few minutes will kill you.

[SoCalCoug]

A guy in my fantasy league (football & baseball) for the last 12 or 13 years is a firefighter down there. It's likely he's part of that fire. But he usually drives a supply truck - I don't think he'd be in the crew that died.

[Northwestcoug]

Another fire this past weekend in Rye, Arizona (Just south of where I lived in Payson). All Bikes shop was completely destroyed. I used to head down to that place just to walk around the acres of bikes there.

http://www.paysonroundup.com/news/2013/jun/30/all-bikes-all-gone/

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2394[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2395[/ATTACH]

I remember this place. I didn't know you grew up around the bustling metropolis of Rye. I lived in Payson for about 3 years in the 80s.

[The Fourth Nephite]

Those shelters are a very last resort type of thing. They can put them up and climb in to them if the fire is going to pass over them, but they aren't designed for you to wait it out for an hour or anything. The hope is that the wind is carrying the fire through the area quickly, you put up your shelter, the fire passes over you, and you pack it up and try to get out of there. Any extended amount of burn time around the shelter more than a few minutes will kill you.

That's not quite accurate. Typical entrapments have lasted from 10 to longer than 90 minutes. Refer to:

http://www.nwcg.gov/pms/pubs/newshelt72.pdf

I found the part on Conditions Inside the Shelter (starting on page 19) to be especially terrifying. For example:

"It was extremely painful. Things that were going through my head were, “I’m going to die, this is going to kill me.” Afterwards, I remember thinking that because my legs were burned on the back of both calves and the backs of my thighs and it was so painful and it had gone on for such a long period of time that they were probably going to have to amputate my legs.

You believe that you’re being burned to death or that you’re being burned to the point that you’d never be able to use those limbs again, when in fact [my injuries] were deep third degree burns. But I ended up being able to fully recover and not have any really serious disability."

or,

"This was like a nuclear blast occurring right over you and you’re lying in tinfoil."

[SoCalCoug]

That's not quite accurate. Typical entrapments have lasted from 10 to longer than 90 minutes. Refer to:

http://www.nwcg.gov/pms/pubs/newshelt72.pdf

I found the part on Conditions Inside the Shelter (starting on page 19) to be especially terrifying. For example:

"It was extremely painful. Things that were going through my head were, “I’m going to die, this is going to kill me.” Afterwards, I remember thinking that because my legs were burned on the back of both calves and the backs of my thighs and it was so painful and it had gone on for such a long period of time that they were probably going to have to amputate my legs.

You believe that you’re being burned to death or that you’re being burned to the point that you’d never be able to use those limbs again, when in fact [my injuries] were deep third degree burns. But I ended up being able to fully recover and not have any really serious disability."

or,

"This was like a nuclear blast occurring right over you and you’re lying in tinfoil."

I heard back from the guy in my fantasy league - he's fortunately in southern Arizona on a couple of fires there. What he told me was that they got caught in a down draft and didn't have time to deploy their fire shelter. He said he saw those guys a few weeks ago at a fire in New Mexico. Said they're mostly college students, and some of the hardest working kids out there.

[il Padrino Ute]

Tragic is the only word that comes to mind.

God bless their families in this most difficult time.

[The_Douger]

That's not quite accurate. Typical entrapments have lasted from 10 to longer than 90 minutes. Refer to:

http://www.nwcg.gov/pms/pubs/newshelt72.pdf

I found the part on Conditions Inside the Shelter (starting on page 19) to be especially terrifying. For example:

"It was extremely painful. Things that were going through my head were, “I’m going to die, this is going to kill me.” Afterwards, I remember thinking that because my legs were burned on the back of both calves and the backs of my thighs and it was so painful and it had gone on for such a long period of time that they were probably going to have to amputate my legs.

You believe that you’re being burned to death or that you’re being burned to the point that you’d never be able to use those limbs again, when in fact [my injuries] were deep third degree burns. But I ended up being able to fully recover and not have any really serious disability."

or,

"This was like a nuclear blast occurring right over you and you’re lying in tinfoil."

I'm by no means someone who knows all about these things, I work with a guy who has used them before, but he's been off the force for a few years. He was telling me last week how they work and how you can run out of air after a while in there, and how depending on the conditions they can burn down pretty fast.

I think it sounds absolutely awful and terrifying. God bless those guy's families.

[Indy Coug]

It may be time to hack their Facebook page again

[Eddie]

It may be time to hack their Facebook page again

I struggle to understand the connection that these wierdos are trying to make.

Are they saying that these 19 people are burning in hell because they were gay? Because they supported gay marriage? Or for some other sin? It seems like they are saying that if someone sins, God will smite someone else to warn them. I'd love to have them demonstrate a biblical example of this for me to better understand. Like how when Cain killed Abel God went and found another brother, John, off minding his own business and then cursed him to teach Cain a lesson. Or the story about when Jonah didn't want to go to Nineveh, so God had a whale swallow a complete stranger named Bill to set him straight.

I'm sure there are more examples out there. Egypt wouldn't let the children of Israel go, so God sends plagues to the Chinese.

Isn't that how it works?

[smokymountainrain]

I heard back from the guy in my fantasy league - he's fortunately in southern Arizona on a couple of fires there. What he told me was that they got caught in a down draft and didn't have time to deploy their fire shelter. He said he saw those guys a few weeks ago at a fire in New Mexico. Said they're mostly college students, and some of the hardest working kids out there.

Interesting. I keep seeing on the news reports that 19 "Elite" firefighters were killed. If they are college students, probably just doing it for the summer or at the very least due to their age lacking experience, makes me wonder what makes them elite.

[smokymountainrain]

I struggle to understand the connection that these wierdos are trying to make.

Are they saying that these 19 people are burning in hell because they were gay? Because they supported gay marriage? Or for some other sin? It seems like they are saying that if someone sins, God will smite someone else to warn them. I'd love to have them demonstrate a biblical example of this for me to better understand. Like how when Cain killed Abel God went and found another brother, John, off minding his own business and then cursed him to teach Cain a lesson. Or the story about when Jonah didn't want to go to Nineveh, so God had a whale swallow a complete stranger named Bill to set him straight.

I'm sure there are more examples out there. Egypt wouldn't let the children of Israel go, so God sends plagues to the Chinese.

Isn't that how it works?

I their point is that because the state of Arizona "supports" gays (allowing the gay pride parade to take place), and those guys were from Arizona, they deserved to die. Makes a ton of sense now, right?