Well, the Pope isn't down with capitalism

[SandYFan]

http://www.smh.com.au/world/pope-bla...517-2jru9.html

Rome: Pope Francis has attacked the ''dictatorship'' of the global financial system and warned that the ''cult of money'' is making life a misery for millions.

He said free market capitalism had created a ''tyranny'' and that people were being judged purely by their ability to consume goods.

Money should be made to ''serve'' people, not to ''rule'' them, he said on Thursday, calling for a more ethical banking system and curbs on financial speculation. Countries should impose more control over their economies and not allow ''absolute autonomy'', in order to provide ''for the common good''.

Apparently he feels the average North Korean is happier than the average American. Good to know.

(P.S. This post got me a 7-day suspension on CB, so you know it's really good.)

[Non Sequitur]

I know that many Christians today find Christ's teachings old-fashioned and quaint, but it's still refreshing to hear a Christian leader refer to things that Christ actually taught, rather than dumb issues like abortion and gay marriage. Good for the Pope.

[Blueintheface]

I know that many Christians today find Christ's teachings old-fashioned and quaint, but it's still refreshing to hear a Christian leader refer to things that Christ actually taught, rather than dumb issues like abortion and gay marriage. Good for the Pope.

+1. He has really hit the ground running.

[BigFatMeanie]

I like the fact the Pope is teaching that people should provide for the common good, I don't like the fact that he's specifying a specific method ("Countries should impose more control over their economies") for doing that.

[creekster]

Maybe he would like us to return to the days of the mission system in California. The church ruled with complete authority over the economic and social system. It was a great deal as long as you were a Jesuit or other proper order.

[SandYFan]

Maybe he would like us to return to the days of the mission system in California. The church ruled with complete authority over the economic and social system. It was a great deal as long as you were a Jesuit or other proper order.

I just have no idea why he's talking about it. Did he not live through the Cold War? Did he not see the results of governments ostensibly creating equal income distribution, and what it actually was?

It is impossible to have that kind of a utopia because greed. Instead of the bankers and oil barons having all the money, the government bureaucrats get it. It's been the case every time it's been implemented.

He's chasing unicorns, here.

[frank ryan]

http://www.smh.com.au/world/pope-bla...517-2jru9.html



Apparently he feels the average North Korean is happier than the average American. Good to know.

(P.S. This post got me a 7-day suspension on CB, so you know it's really good.)

Yup that is exactly what he said Captain Hyperbole

I know that many Christians today find Christ's teachings old-fashioned and quaint, but it's still refreshing to hear a Christian leader refer to things that Christ actually taught, rather than dumb issues like abortion and gay marriage. Good for the Pope.

I agree, worshiping capitalism or more specifically materialism is not remotely Christian.

I like the fact the Pope is teaching that people should provide for the common good, I don't like the fact that he's specifying a specific method ("Countries should impose more control over their economies") for doing that.

This is a reasonable criticism.

I just have no idea why he's talking about it. Did he not live through the Cold War? Did he not see the results of governments ostensibly creating equal income distribution, and what it actually was?

It is impossible to have that kind of a utopia because greed. Instead of the bankers and oil barons having all the money, the government bureaucrats get it. It's been the case every time it's been implemented.

He's chasing unicorns, here.

He's from Argentina, you cougarboard-stowaway. He is not from Eastern Europe so his cold war experience was likely a lot different than Polish guy's

[SandYFan]

Yup that is exactly what he said Captain Hyperbole

I see you agree with El Jefe.

He's from Argentina, you cougarboard-stowaway. He is not from Eastern Europe so his cold war experience was likely a lot different than Polish guy's

And I was a child in America during the Cold War. How is my understanding of it apparently so much better than his?

[frank ryan]

I see you agree with El Jefe.




And I was a child in America during the Cold War. How is my understanding of it apparently so much better than his?

His understanding is a lot better than yours. You seem like you need to go take a few remedial social studies classes.

[SandYFan]

His understanding is a lot better than yours. You seem like you need to go take a few remedial social studies classes.

I will respectfully bow out of this conversation. You may feel like you won if you want.

[VirginiaCougar]

I just have no idea why he's talking about it. Did he not live through the Cold War? Did he not see the results of governments ostensibly creating equal income distribution, and what it actually was?

It is impossible to have that kind of a utopia because greed. Instead of the bankers and oil barons having all the money, the government bureaucrats get it. It's been the case every time it's been implemented.

He's chasing unicorns, here.

Why would you think it is black and white? It isn't just capitalism or Marxist communism as choices.

When he discusses "free-market" capitalism, I believe he is speaking of a specific variant of capitalism. He is also right, it has been shocking damaging to the American economy and elsewhere. There are "softer and kinder" versions of capitalism that still use the market but actually don't create the same problems he describes well. Germany and a few Scandanavian countries have figured that out in their respective contexts. We can't just copy their versions because of different situations, but there are uniquely American forms of Capitalism that come much closer to what you saw in the early days of the Republic. Teddy Roosevelt was right when he talked of a "New Nationalism," a kinder capitalism that was uniquely American, a return to more traditional American values.

The version preached by libertarians and today's conservatives is far removed from that better (my word) version.

[pellegrino]

this will come as no surprise to anyone who is familiar with the Jesuit order, which has a long tradition of promoting social justice through a Thomist lense.

Jesuits don't care fore capitalism, but that doesn't mean they are communists, rather they're trying to act as voices for the voiceless and to lighten the load of the oppressed.

[il Padrino Ute]

this will come as no surprise to anyone who is familiar with the Jesuit order, which has a long tradition of promoting social justice through a Thomist lense.

Jesuits don't care fore capitalism, but that doesn't mean they are communists, rather they're trying to act as voices for the voiceless and to lighten the load of the oppressed.

The Jesuits gave up on Marist College before I even got there. A lot of good they did for me, a lone, conservative, white, Republican male from Utah.

[creekster]

this will come as no surprise to anyone who is familiar with the Jesuit order, which has a long tradition of promoting social justice through a Thomist lense.

Jesuits don't care fore capitalism, but that doesn't mean they are communists, rather they're trying to act as voices for the voiceless and to lighten the load of the oppressed.

I didnt mean to offend the Jesuits. I actually graduated from a Jesuit university (where more than a few of the Jesuits WERE communists, btw) and have great respect for the order. But sometimes their zealousness is an easy target

[calicoug]

I just have no idea why he's talking about it. Did he not live through the Cold War? Did he not see the results of governments ostensibly creating equal income distribution, and what it actually was?

It is impossible to have that kind of a utopia because greed. Instead of the bankers and oil barons having all the money, the government bureaucrats get it. It's been the case every time it's been implemented.

He's chasing unicorns, here.

Why he's talking about what? Focusing on something other than money? Leaving money aside to pursue more worthy goals?

That actually sounds pretty familiar to me... what other spiritual guy may have said similar comments?

It isn't the job of a Catholic pope to preach about an economic order that fundamentally relies on greed to thrive. It may not be realistic to expect greed to disappear and alternate economic orders to function in this life, but I don't know why you would single this teaching out for being unattainable and not others (sexual purity, integrity in all dealings, no birth control, eliminating the other 6 deadly sins in addition to greed, etc.). The pope is setting the aspirational standard. What's more confusing to me is why so many Mormons believe capitalism is actually the aspirational standard.