What is wrong with California?

[FMCoug]

Forget the injustice thing; I was just messing with you, although it is ironic that the red states, who complain more about government taxes and spending, generally receive proportionately more than do the blue states. It's really more a function of population density and the amount of federal acreage, among other factors.

http://visualeconomics.creditloan.co...l-tax-dollars/

I'll nd happy to move to a blue state in my later years when I need more of the services and pay less of the taxes.

It's called gaming the system.

[byu71]

Forget the injustice thing; I was just messing with you, although it is ironic that the red states, who complain more about government taxes and spending, generally receive proportionately more than do the blue states. It's really more a function of population density and the amount of federal acreage, among other factors.

http://visualeconomics.creditloan.co...l-tax-dollars/

You may have been messing with me, but I think it is a good question. The problem is I doubt anyone can come up with an acceptable answer as to how much each state recieves in benifits per tax dollar sent. I would like to see a calculation on how much I receive in benfits from each dollar I send. However like I said, how do you come up with those numbers.

For instance, how do you allocate defense spending to each state?

[PaloAltoCougar]

You may have been messing with me, but I think it is a good question. The problem is I doubt anyone can come up with an acceptable answer as to how much each state recieves in benifits per tax dollar sent. I would like to see a calculation on how much I receive in benfits from each dollar I send. However like I said, how do you come up with those numbers.

For instance, how do you allocate defense spending to each state?

I don't know, and there are many other similar questions, of course. For example, do they include the huge subsidies that are provided to various industries, like oil and corn?

[byu71]

I don't know, and there are many other similar questions, of course. For example, do they include the huge subsidies that are provided to various industries, like oil and corn?

I will admit I haven't read up on the oil subsidy issue. Do they really get subsidies or tax breaks. If they get tax breaks then it is figured into what is sent to the federal government in taxes.

[Viking]

Beautiful weather and so much to do. What other state lets you ski, surf, hike, mountain climb, see movie stars, taste wine, shop, camp, eat, go to any number of professional and collegiate sporting events, hit all sorts of museums and hang out with my family? Nope. There isn't another state that has all of that.

This is all true. California is cool.

My average day consists of deciding whether to surf or run 5 miles on the most beautiful urban beach in the world surrounded by wonderful (and beautiful) people (women).

I like life

[calicoug]

California's issues are largely structural. The constitutional requirements for tax increases and passing budgets are almost insurmountable, making compromise virtually impossible. The entire system promotes stalemate- not a good thing when action is desperately needed on multiple fronts. Add in the proposition structure and the state is almost not governable. It's a huge mess.

But, it's beyond beautiful, weather can't be beat, and Marsupial is exactly right- there is just no other place quite like it.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Allow me to interrupt the anecdotes for a second to review the article/survey in question. It is quite interesting. First of all, it is a survey given to 650 top executives and they were asked to grade the states in three categories:

tax & regulation climate
workforce quality
living environment

You can see a detailed breakdown about how each state was rated here:

http://chiefexecutive.net/how-ceos-g...he-states-2012

California got horrible ratings in the tax and regulation category and mediocre ratings in the other two categories. (BTW, Utah was #1 in workforce quality and #3 in living environment).

A few quotes from the article:

California’s enduring place of perpetual decline continues in this year’s ranking. Once the most attractive business environment, the Golden State appears to slip deeper into the ninth circle of business hell. The economy, which used to outperform the rest of the country, now substantially underperforms. And its status as the most ruinously contentious place to operate remains undisturbed in eight years. Its unemployment rate, at 10.9 percent, is higher than every other state except Nevada and Rhode Island. With 12 percent of America’s population, California has one-third of the nation’s welfare recipients. Each year, the evidence that businesses are leaving California or avoid locating there because of the high cost of doing business due to excessive state taxes and stringent regulations, grows. (See “Eastward Ho!”) According to Spectrum Locations Consultants, 254 California companies moved some or all of their work and jobs out of state in 2011, an increase of 26 percent over the previous year and five times as many as in 2009.

(my emphasis)

This really surprised me about Louisiana:

Although often eclipsed by Texas, its next door neighbor, Louisiana, is the Cinderella of business improvement. In 2006, it ranked 47th—where Massachusetts is today. And Katrina didn’t help matters. But since then it has climbed steadily up the ranks so that it is now 13th—up from 27th last year—the biggest leap in a single year of any state.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Forget the injustice thing; I was just messing with you, although it is ironic that the red states, who complain more about government taxes and spending, generally receive proportionately more than do the blue states. It's really more a function of population density and the amount of federal acreage, among other factors.

http://visualeconomics.creditloan.co...l-tax-dollars/

California has a lot of wealthy people and they pay a disproportionate amount of federal taxes. But it also has a ton of poverty. I'd be willing to bet a higher percentage of the population in state like Utah pays taxes, but they don't have the same population of wealthy people that pay much more like California has.

There are also a lot of places in California where you don't have to worry much about the problems associated with that poverty. So, if you've already got enough money not to worry, then chances are you're not going to care about the marginal cost between living in Carmel and retiring to some place like Chandler, AZ.

The problem is that the remainder of the state, where the middle class lives, is increasingly becoming a shithole. While I can't think of many better places to live than La UJolla, I can't think of many worse places to live than Riverside. In the process, the tax base is becoming more narrow because small businesses and the middle class are leaving the state.

And the proposition system there is ridiculous. Not surprisingly the electorate will vote for less taxes and more benrfits whenever you give them the chance to do so. The state government just raises taxes and fees in response wherever they can. It's a state that's impossible to govern.

[Viking]

Allow me to interrupt the anecdotes for a second to review the article/survey in question. It is quite interesting. First of all, it is a survey given to 650 top executives and they were asked to grade the states in three categories:

tax & regulation climate
workforce quality
living environment

You can see a detailed breakdown about how each state was rated here:

http://chiefexecutive.net/how-ceos-g...he-states-2012

California got horrible ratings in the tax and regulation category and mediocre ratings in the other two categories. (BTW, Utah was #1 in workforce quality and #3 in living environment).

A few quotes from the article:



(my emphasis)

This really surprised me about Louisiana:

Sadly, Louisiana had to go through catastrophe to wake it up a bit. I'm glad they are doing better.

As an aside, I can't really put my finger on it but growing up in Texas, you're knew you weren't actually a southerner. It was something else: a Texan. However, crossing into Shreveport, you immediately knew you were now in the South.

[SCcoug]

This really surprised me about Louisiana:

Jindal for VP!

[Uncle Ted]

Do you feel any sense of injustice that California receives 78 cents for every dollar its citizens send to Washington, while Utah receives $1.07 for every buck its citizens send?

Y'all need to get rid of Nancy Pelosi and send someone to DC that will get you a bigger share of the federal pie. Texas only gets 94 cents on the dollar, I think.

My sense is that the article grossly overstates the exodus. All of the CEOs I know grumble a lot about California, but they have no intention of ever relocating, as the personal and professional advantages of being in Silicon Valley outweigh substantially the negatives of a messed up state government. I suspect Silicon Valley will continue to be the world's greatest incubator of tech companies for years to come.

Yes, California is king when it comes to tech but companies are having a problem getting the employees they need to relocate to CA. Right now the California company I contract for is offering $10,000 per head if I can refer someone and they get hired. (And you should the signing bonus they offered me to relocate and work full-time.) Even a million dollars doesn't buy much in the way of a house in the valley in a nice neighborhood with good schools. A million dollars will buy a home at least 3x these sizes with schools that are ranked in the top 50 in the country where I live and there isn't any transfer tax on the sale. While the 1.2% property tax rate is nice (it is a little over 2% around the Dallas area where I am moving to this summer) it doesn't take much of a house to have a huge bill in silicon valley. Then add the 9.3% in income taxes (assuming a couple making more than $94K a year). No thanks. I would rather live in Dallas and commute to California about once every six weeks for a week of work. Maybe more companies, including the one I contract for, will come to the conclusion to get the employees they need they might have to open more office space outside of California.

[Moliere]

Y'all need to get rid of Nancy Pelosi and send someone to DC that will get you a bigger share of the federal pie. Texas only gets 94 cents on the dollar, I think.




Yes, California is king when it comes to tech but companies are having a problem getting the employees they need to relocate to CA. Right now the California company I contract for is offering $10,000 per head if I can refer someone and they get hired. (And you should the signing bonus they offered me to relocate and work full-time.) Even a million dollars doesn't buy much in the way of a house in the valley in a nice neighborhood with good schools. A million dollars will buy a home at least 3x these sizes with schools that are ranked in the top 50 in the country where I live and there isn't any transfer tax on the sale. While the 1.2% property tax rate is nice (it is a little over 2% around the Dallas area where I am moving to this summer) it doesn't take much of a house to have a huge bill in silicon valley. Then add the 9.3% in income taxes (assuming a couple making more than $94K a year). No thanks. I would rather live in Dallas and commute to California about once every six weeks for a week of work. Maybe more companies, including the one I contract for, will come to the conclusion to get the employees they need they might have to open more office space outside of California.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Y'all need to get rid of Nancy Pelosi and send someone to DC that will get you a bigger share of the federal pie. Texas only gets 94 cents on the dollar, I think.




Yes, California is king when it comes to tech but companies are having a problem getting the employees they need to relocate to CA. Right now the California company I contract for is offering $10,000 per head if I can refer someone and they get hired. (And you should the signing bonus they offered me to relocate and work full-time.) Even a million dollars doesn't buy much in the way of a house in the valley in a nice neighborhood with good schools. A million dollars will buy a home at least 3x these sizes with schools that are ranked in the top 50 in the country where I live and there isn't any transfer tax on the sale. While the 1.2% property tax rate is nice (it is a little over 2% around the Dallas area where I am moving to this summer) it doesn't take much of a house to have a huge bill in silicon valley. Then add the 9.3% in income taxes (assuming a couple making more than $94K a year). No thanks. I would rather live in Dallas and commute to California about once every six weeks for a week of work. Maybe more companies, including the one I contract for, will come to the conclusion to get the employees they need they might have to open more office space outside of California.

All true, but I'll simply note the obvious that housing costs are so high because, despite its many problems, California remains a great place to live, for execs and employees alike.

[Uncle Ted]

All true, but I'll simply note the obvious that housing costs are so high because, despite its many problems, California remains a great place to live, for execs and employees alike.

Here is an interesting infographic for the sector I work in... Note while salaries are higher in the valley the cost of living is significantly higher. For example, home costs are 191% higher (with average home price of $775K) than the national average. The average salary is about $92K/yr in the valley. To have the same standard of living in Dallas I only need to earn about $43K/yr. I do have to agree that California is a desirable place to live... only if it didn't cost so damn much to live there (e.g. $4.25/gallon of gas compared to $3.50/gallon in Dallas and don't get me started on talking about taxes again), the public school classes sizes were not so large (30? are you kidding me? It is 17 at our ISD.), one could afford to send their kids to the public Universities of that state rather than sending them to Boise State or Oregon (not there is anything wrong with Oregon), etc.

[Indy Coug]

If I got a job as an actuary with Pacific Life in Newport Beach, I would need to make about 225% of what I make now.